Governor DeSantis is right on covid. And that is not very hard for us to admit.
A few facts from the NY Times:
Florida is averaging 21,673 new cases. DeSantis has been proven right.
Florida is averaging 51,561 tests a day; down 51% . DeSantis is right.
Florida has 17, 183 people hospitalized, up17% and is averaging 228 people dying every day (over 1500 souls a week), up 87%. DeSantis has been proven right again and again.
The Times summarizes the data as Florida has more people getting sick, more people hospitalized, and more people dying than at any time during the pandemic. DeSantis has been proven right, right, and right.
There are two schools of thought aligned along the left-right political spectrum. The "left" believes in science, that masks stop the spread, and that vaccines save lives. The "right" believes in anything that is opposite of the left. Masks do not work, the government (which requires polio and a myriad of other vaccines) has NO RIGHT to require people to wear masks, and vaccines have been rushed, could sterilize a whole generation of young women, enrich Bill Gates and Dr. Fauci, and do not work.
DeSantis is the right. So he is, as we say above - "right". And thousands of Floridians are sick, dead and dying because he is right.
So there.
35 comments:
is this what passes for clever in this town?
DeSantis is a covidiot. His kids don't go to public schools. They don't get to sit in enclosed spaces with those people who don't have rich options like private schools or early vaccinations. He is politically to the right, but morally wrong. Wrong on science and wrong on the facts. His is a scarlet "I" for incompetence, or a "D" for death. Either way it leads to these numbers.
1143,this blogger is a bit of a straight-line partisan thinker. Well, maybe more than a bit.
The "vaccines have been rushed so stay away" came from Democrats. Desantis never said it. Trump brags about the speed the vaccines came out. Where do you get your info?
News flash: covid is here. The vaccines work. Covid is NEVER going away. ****As i am vaccinated,*** i am living my life and going back to normal. Rump feel free to watch cnn all day and fret about delta all day.
Good luck!
Hey, over 1,400 people dying last week in Florida is a small price to pay for our liberty and freedom. I have a right to swing my fist however I want, and if your nose got in the way, that's on you.
I abhor the whole right wing thing however, last year, when we were adhering to all the preventive measurements, did it prevent or minimize anything? Is that virus going to go roaring ahead no matter what we do (except for getting vaccinated)? I follow the rules but do many of the rules really accomplish anything?
Here here
A virus that is killing mostly anti-vax, conspiracy theory hillbillies and rednecks.
You made your choice. Now live with it. Hard to give a shit at this point.
The Captain Reports:
COVID-19 ADVISORY #109
SELF-MONITORING NOTICE
Two individuals who worked at the locations and on the dates listed below have tested positive for COVID-19.
Persons identified as having been in close proximity to the confirmed individuals are being notified and will be asked to take all necessary precautions.
Individual #1
Richard E. Gerstein Justice Building, 1351 NW 12 St.:
Room 225 on 8/12-24/2021
Room 630 on 8/12-24/2021
Lawson E. Thomas Courthouse Center, 175 NW 1st Ave.:
Room 1800 on 8/12-24/2021
Room 1833 on 8/12-24/2021
Room 1854 on 8/12-24/2021
Miami-Dade Children’s Courthouse, 155 NW 3rd St.:
Room 14305 on 8/12-24/2021
Last date onsite: 8/24/2021
Individual #2
Lawson E. Thomas Courthouse Center, 175 NW 1st Ave.:
Courtroom 2B on 8/12, 19, and 25/2021
Last date onsite: 8/25/2021
Persons who were in these locations recently should follow the guidelines outlined in the Centers for Disease Control website at: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/if-you-are-sick/quarantine.html
Tacking to truth is a survival mechanism. I'm not talking about people who refuse to vax. Sure, anti-vaxers die or get sick at much higher rates than those who vaccinate. But, no. I'm talking about the Republican Party. The party won't survive unless it does a better job aligning with science. Get out of the way Archie Bunker. We are all a family. We shouldn't have to be told to protect our brothers and sisters from infection. Archie spreads disease while protesting the prevention. I see nothing wrong with regulations for general health, when the inconvenience of vaccine is so minimal. Get the vaccine Archie, before you kill Meathead. No. Meathead got the vaccine. ... before you kill Edith.
I had a neighbor who believed that wearing clothes in public was a restriction of his rights. He believed children should be allowed to go to school nude if their parents permitted it. He used to bitch that school honchos should not be telling people how to dress or even to dress. My man has finally found a champion in DeSantis.
Absolutely love 9:30's sentiments celebrating COVID deaths because he believes (falsely) that the "bad guys" (hillbillies and rednecks, in his language) are the ones dying disproportionately.
Of course, any intelligent person looking at which demographics are dying disproportionately would realize they are, in this order: the elderly, those struggling with diseases like cancer, the obese, and finally African Americans and Hispanic Americans.
That's who are dying disproportionately. Would 9:30 still celebrate this? Somehow I think he'd be too cowardly to admit that.
But it's incredibly enlightening that he's already shown his character -- the same as those who would have written in 1987: "AIDS is killing mostly gays. You made your choice. Now live with it. Hard to give a shit."
That's who you are, 9:30.
And that's the moral character of the contemporary left.
@4:20
Not everyone rejecting the vaccine is a Trump-loving MAGA-hat Neanderthal. Lots of people are reluctant for all kinds of reasons that have deep cultural and historical roots. (Vaccine acceptance among African Americans is less than 40%; among Latinos less than 45%. That's not because Black folks and Latinos love Donald Trump. Comprehensive source below.)
Mocking the vaccine reluctant as peasants, enjoying the dopamine rush of posting a snarky anonymous internet comment, reveling in the stories of them "getting what they deserve" when they get sick -- all that might feel like tons of fun to you. But it is lousy public health policy. It does nothing to recognize the CAUSES of vaccine resistance writ large, especially among populations suffering disproportionately from this virus, and it does less than nothing to persuade anyone to get the vaccine.
Education, connection, and just maybe a dollop of humanity are what's needed. My approach has been first to listen to the objections, acknowledge them, then to explain why I chose to get vaccinated and have my whole family do likewise. That seems to have worked a few times.
But then I don't suspect from your comment that good public health policy is really what's driving you, so don't let me diminish your glee that those whom you oppose politically might die.
Source: https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/issue-brief/latest-data-on-covid-19-vaccinations-race-ethnicity/
Apologies. I noted @4:20 in my response which was meant for @9:30.
6:09, we'll never be able to know what it would've been like had we not taken all those preventative measures.
I also spent plenty of angry time over the holidays knowing that I couldn't see my family or friends and part of the reason why I couldn't was because I was watching all the idiots out there having parties and celebrations for theirs. Feeling sort of the same way now.
But you know the biggest thing all those meaures I took prevented: The death of my and my family. Thousands of others can't say the same.
MoRon DuhSantis
Did you all hear a white police officer shot an unarmed black woman who was in the middle of a riot about to trespass? The officer didnt even warn the women that he was about to shoot. He just executed her. Coulda tried a baton first? Mace? Taser? Nah the woman was about to trespass and yea she was unarmed, but *who knows* what she and the crowd of rioters mights have done.
Oh wait, it was a black officer and a white woman named ashli babbit. Now Im not upset at all. In fact, i loved when the guy was whining how his life was ruined just for killing one person...in the officers own words, "i saved countless lives." What a hero!
The moral of the story is this: forget about the bullshit fake outrage about tear gas as an inappropriate means of controlling a riot. We all have learned that ***live rounds*** of lethal force--homicide--is now an acceptable option of deterring unarmed rioters from entering a building they are not allowed to be in, because hell WHO KNOWS what they might do?
This might not be the best week for the left to say they are right.
Mr. Kuntz,
When you post those Kaiser Foundation numbers, you are equivocating between percentages and actual numbers.
The majority of United States residents who have not been vaccinated against COVID-19 are white, according to available state data and survey research. That contradicts Texas Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick’s claim that, “in most states,” Black residents are “the biggest group” of unvaccinated people.
The Kaiser Family Foundation, a nonpartisan, health-issues organization, reported that across 40 states with comparable data as of Aug. 16, the percentage of people who had received at least one dose of a COVID-19 vaccine was 50% for whites, 45% for Hispanics and 40% for Blacks. Because Blacks (41.1 million) and Hispanics (62.1 million) make up a much smaller portion of the overall U.S. population than whites (204.3 million), those percentages indicate that, in raw numbers, far more white people remain unvaccinated against the disease.
However, there is no support for the claim that Black people are the “biggest group” of people who have yet to get a shot.
Besides the KFF analysis of state data, a KFF poll of individuals conducted between July 15 and July 27 found that among unvaccinated adults, 57% were white, 20% were Hispanic and 13% were Black.
“While White adults account for the largest share (57%) of unvaccinated adults, Black and Hispanic people remain less likely than their White counterparts to have received a vaccine, leaving them at increased risk, particularly as the variant spreads,” KFF said in an Aug. 18 issue brief.
U.S. Census Bureau estimates (Table 5a) — based on the most recent Household Pulse Survey for the period between July 21 and Aug. 2 — also indicate that the number of unvaccinated white adults (about 26.6 million) exceeded the number of unvaccinated Hispanic adults (about 8.5 million) and Black adults (about 6.7 million) at the time.
https://www.factcheck.org/2021/08/scicheck-texas-lt-gov-patricks-false-claim-about-unvaccinated-black-people/
I would like to believe that being patient and presenting the dispassionate facts and evidence can persuade people. But it does not.
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/02/27/why-facts-dont-change-our-minds
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2011/04/denial-science-chris-mooney/
When so many of these vaccine-resistant individuals get their "information" from sources like Fox News, NewsMax, InfoWars, or Gateway Pundit, they are unlikely to be receptive or susceptible to credible evidence. They believe medical science is just some big lie put on by the Democrats, Bill Gates, George Soros, Lizard People, or whatever boogeyman they think is pulling the strings.
No, not every person who rejects the vaccine is some "Trump-loving MAGA-hat Neanderthal." I'm sure there are some alternative medicine hippy types in there too. However, the most vocal, significant, and dangerous of the vaccine resistant crowd are not some diverse cross-section of races, ethnicities, or political backgrounds. You do not see some equal share of Black and Brown people within the anti-vaccine, anti-mask protests. The people who dispatch constant posts about the vaccine being some poison computer chip, or who harangue and threaten school boards for requiring masks in schools, or who block the roads at vaccine centers are predominantly conservative Whites. They are the most likely to espouse such views and the least likely to be reasoned with on the subject. And unfortunately, because so many states and legislatures are disproportionately controlled by conservative Whites who share at least some of their positions, their views and complaints are way more likely to have sway and influence, causing harm for everyone of whatever race or political belief.
1107 yes we do know..look at Sweden.. they're done with covid and never took any of these authoritarian measures
Do any of you read other nations data? University studies? The vaxxed nations are having the outbreaks now not the unvaxxed nations. Look at Israel vs Jordan or Palestine.. look at UK vs ,say, Romania. The vaxxed are super spreaders, variant creators, and while you get short term therapeutic protection you are harming your natural immune system. Vaxxes should be for the elderly and obese, not healthy 40 year olds..many of you will come to regret your choice to be vaxxed.
And Biden is “left.” He “left” Afghanistan and now “left” the world in utter despair.
For almost forty years, I've eaten hot dogs from the cart in front of the Justice Building. I've snorted coke off the back of every toilet on the first floor of the building. At Fox's I've drank Inver House scotch left in glasses by other patrons. I slept in the bathroom at the Deuce Bar. I've had unprotected sex with my prostitution clients when I pick them up from DCJ and the Annex, for my fee. And I KNEW Ellen Morphonious.
But if you think I am going to put that untested vaccine in my body, you are cray-cray.
What did you do at the alibi? Tobacco Road? The marine bar?
Wow I'm not very impressed w the comments ref blacks and Hispanics it's flawed stats
Got some bad news for you 1107: Sweden is not done with Covid. There have been 1,122,139 infections and 14,682 coronavirus-related deaths reported in the country since the pandemic began. And COVID-19 infections are increasing in Sweden, with 939 new infections reported on average each day. sorry to confuse you with facts.
@4:16 If I read you right, you criticize my citation to percentages (which indicate minority populations in the US are getting vaccinated in disproportionally smaller numbers) by saying the raw number of white unvaccinated citizens are higher. That's hardly a contradiction, and wasn't my point. I am speaking specifically about PROPORTIONS and concerned specifically with the "pro-vaccine" messaging that so often (as in the comment from @9:30) simply paints the unvaccinated as ignorant and politically driven.
Black folks have died in greater proportion from the virus. (Take Washington DC, where African Americans have been 56% of the cases but more than 70% of the fatalities.) A population already at risk because of lesser access to healthcare (and, on the next order, greater incidence of key co-morbidities like obesity and diabetes (c.f. study after study about food inequity in this country)) is also, PROPORTIONATELY, less likely to be vaccinated.
Pushing the vaccine hard with Black communities should be a top priority (presuming one's goal is to minimize death and suffering), and addressing vaccine hesitancy there isn't served by the approach of so many America commentators, thought leaders and officials, whose reflex response to anyone hesitant to get the vaccine is to hurl insults. Some have understood this and shaped the initiative to fit the need. Others (including some here, including, sadly, Rumpole himself at times) simply cannot resist the reductive dynamic of Team D versus Team R and default to it even here, where it is least useful.
@Mr. Crawford: The Kaiser Family Foundation is widely viewed as among the most comprehensive and credible sources of information about national health policy. Can you say which specific parts of the lengthy report you find flawed? Any thoughts on how to address the current disparity in vaccination rates, to help protect vulnerable, at-risk populations?
12:40, as one doctor pointed out recently, the vaccine has been tested on more people than any medicine your doctor has ever prescribed. About a billion now I expect.
@ 8:29 am - I only entered the Alibi to buy Sy Gaer a drink, and then I would leave. Eventually, before or during almost every trial, I made sure to do so, as a nod to the Trial Gods. When this became more difficult in Sy's later years, I would save half my lunch and give it to Red. Sometimes Red would let me sit and eat with him and he would tell me stuff. We smoked a few doobies together.
I was never fond of Tobacco Road. Too many agents, local cops, and prosecutors wearing little Boy t-shirts 3 sizes too small, showing off their unique tribal tattoos and swollen steroid heads, hurriedly screwing their latest young girl in the parking lot before heading home to the wife. Plus, you couldn't get a good martini at the Road if your life depended on it. I did not mind, however, all the flies on the BBQ cooked out back, on the rare occasion I would eat at the Road.
The 1800 Club was a favorite. When I recall the corruption facilitated there, openly, my heart swells for Miami's Days of Yore. And a martini? The young woman behind the bar - I seem to recall her name was Liz or Elizabeth - she had legs that seemed to me to go on forever, unmatched discretion, and a knowing visage - she could make your martini just as you wished - in my case, in and out on the vermouth, up, dirty, two olives. Didn't matter if she were serving Ron Rothstein after a Heat game or a daily regular drunk Flagler Street civil lawyer at lunch. She made it right. I always told her when I was in trial and she would always cap my martinis at three, during lunch. Someone once told me she went on to become a lawyer. Boy, did I want to take a roll in the sack with her.
Let's don't forget Sally Russell's. Because, on the rare instance when I had to appear in the "civil" courthouse for an 830 am hearing there was nowhere to shower off the scum immediately after, but there was Sally Russell's for breakfast: whole wheat toast, a cigar, and two double Johnny Red label. I had sex in the back room more than a couple times with an unnamed jurist, before the lunch rush.
I miss the good old days.
Anyway, if I could survive all that, why do I need a vaccine?
More prominent COVID deniers and anti-vaxxers keep dying of something. Of course, some of them won't admit that COVID is even real, so they're claiming that the government must be assassinating them.
https://nypost.com/2021/08/30/ex-cia-spy-first-to-call-covid-a-hoax-dies-from-the-virus/
8:29 -
Oh, the Alibi ~ What a place to hang for happy hour after a long day/week at the Justice Building, say 80s, 90s? LOVED that place !!
Alibi stories ?
"That's hardly a contradiction, and wasn't my point. I am speaking specifically about PROPORTIONS and concerned specifically with the "pro-vaccine" messaging that so often (as in the comment from @9:30) simply paints the unvaccinated as ignorant and politically driven."
If the point is addressing vaccine hesitancy, it is relevant that most unvaccinated people in this country by numbers and the most vocal and influential ones are whites, usually of a conservative bent. I'm not sure what your point was, except maybe attempting to blunt or divert criticism of white conservative vaccine resisters by holding up black and brown vaccine hesitant people as some kind of sympathy shield? Or to make out the minority population percentage of unvaccinated to be the more pressing issue? A softer version of Dan Patrick's blame-shifting to black people for vaccine figures?
"Pushing the vaccine hard with Black communities should be a top priority"
For the skepticism and mistrust that black and brown communities have about mainstream medicine, there are ongoing attempts at community engagement, like having community leaders, advocates, pastors, even barbers reach out to their neighbors to publicly get the vaccine and speak out in favor of the vaccine. Tyler Perry hosted a roundtable show and got the shot on air. They've even had descendants of the Tuskegee study victims advocate for the vaccine publicly.
https://newsroom.howard.edu/newsroom/article/14706/tuskegee-study-descendants-tackle-distrust-medicine-and-overcoming-covid-19
So plenty of “education” and “connection” is being attempted.
How strong do you think is the solidarity between white and black vaccine hesitant camps despite the racial division? Do you think black and brown people hesitant about the vaccine say to themselves "Oh, the media mocked this white, QAnon, MAGA, ProudBoy anti-vaxxer! I'll never get the vaccine because of this!"
Even leaving aside the numerical fact that most unvaccinated and vaccine resistant people in this country are white, you also ignore the political power aspect. Vaccine hesitant black and brown people have nowhere near the influence that vaccine hesitant white people hold and continue to wield in this country. When crowds of entitled anti-vaxxers, anti-maskers, and COVID deniers protest to threaten teachers, school boards, and doctors, there is not some representative diverse racial cross-section among them. The crowds are predominantly white and conservative. And because of this, they have the ear and support of lots of politicians on the local, state, and federal level, so they often get all manner of attention, respect, accommodation, and favor for their views and demands. If black and brown vaccine hesitant people behaved like the white ones do, they would be tear-gassed, tasered, and shot. Unlike black and brown vaccine hesitant people, white vaccine resisters have way more power to affect society and all members of it (whatever their race) for the worse.
We’ve doled out way more than a “dollop of humanity.” When a group of people not only refuse a medical treatment important for both individual and community safety, but also spew lies to make others do the same, get sick anyway, use up medical resources, and then insult and threaten the very people trying to save their lives with their dying breath, then perhaps at some point, they have overdrawn other people’s sympathy.
@11:30 I'll address one of your comments, because it is such a vile argument, leveling so scurrilous an accusation, from such a baseless assumption that I'm not inclined to let it pass -- despite the fact you seem unwilling to discuss this in good faith and I'm clearly wasting my time.
You wrote:
"I'm not sure what your point was, except maybe attempting to blunt or divert criticism of white conservative vaccine resisters by holding up black and brown vaccine hesitant people as some kind of sympathy shield? Or to make out the minority population percentage of unvaccinated to be the more pressing issue? A softer version of Dan Patrick's blame-shifting to black people for vaccine figures?"
My argument was none of those things. If you knew or cared the least thing about me, you'd have foregone accusing me of either loyalty to "white conservatives" or a willingness to resort to racism directed at African Americans or Latinos. Rather, my point was that the reflex to characterize the vaccine hesitant as rightwing trogs, and to further characterize anyone with questions or hesitancy as "anti-vax," is not only reductive but counter-productive to the very goal those making hurling those insults at least CLAIM they have, i.e., getting folks vaccinated. [As I noted about @9:30 above, I think it actually has a LOT more to do with “owning the GQP,” or some similar partisan point scoring, than it has to do with giving a tinker’s daman about anyone’s health.]
Although you are right in one thing: Yes. I do think the percentage of minority folks who are unvaccinated is a pressing issue; a matter of life and death in fact -- a matter the numbers clearly demonstrate is more potentially lethal for those populations than for the majority. But remember when Team D leaders were calling the safety of vaccine into doubt because it was being developed while Team R was in power? And notice how now that Team D is pushing hard on the vaccine requirements and mask mandates, Team R pushes back on these mandates? So how is it surprising that any people might be confused? This toxic political gravy being ladled over to every single question of Covid response has, understandably, caused that confusion. But that is even more salient of an issue for some communities. My interest in this particular dynamic is far from theoretical. I'm part of an enormous Latino family and I have seen many in that community for whom a historically justifiable distrust of governmental authority has given them pause when faced with ever-shifting diktats from the government. You responding to my concern by labeling me a racist is exactly what has me responding (certainly futilely) to you at all.
Because even in a conversation about unjustifiably dumping people into the famous basket of deplorables is or isn't a productive public health practice, you could not resist the reflex to do exactly that. (And, since you brought up the notion of shields, I note you choose to do so while cowering behind a cover of anonymity from whence that is so easy to do.) So, with that, I'm done with you. Have the last word here if you like. I'll expect it to be more of the same baseless, craven ad hominem content as your last word. No doubt posting it will give you a delicious dopamine rush (far more so, no doubt, than if you ever were called upon to do so face-to-face). Enjoy.
Kindness and empathy aren't going to solve every public health problem. Anti-vaxxers are shutting down vaccination sites and stalking and threatening public health personnel.
https://www.macon.com/news/coronavirus/article253861983.html
You can't just throw kindness and sympathy at such individuals. At some point, the stick has to be used.
“you seem unwilling to discuss this in good faith”
You came on here likening people to addicts in search of “dopamine rush” while you played the part of condescending sage who “tuts tuts” people you find intemperate. Spare us the “good faith” card, when you’ve been using ad hominems yourself.
I agreed that not all vaccine hesitant people are “rightwing trogs” or “deplorables.” But lots of them fit the definition and belong in the basket. Such persons tend to be white and conservative and do the most damage with their outbursts and advocacy and wield way more social influence than vaccine hesitant black or brown people. If such persons become ill, I don’t think there’s anything wrong in saying such persons got hoisted by their own petards. And making such remarks about such vaccine resisters does not preclude efforts at outreach and engagement with minority communities about the vaccine, which are ongoing and which I support. And I previously questioned any causal connection between mockery of sickened militant vaccine resisters and vaccine hesitancy within communities of color. Do vaccine hesitant black and brown people harden their suspicions about vaccines when they see some MAGA QAnon type get mocked on social media? I think your concern about how mockery of vaccine resisters is “counter-productive” to vaccine outreach to minority communities is a non sequitur and just becomes a pretense to shield pernicious vaccine resisters and disinformation purveyors from criticism. Whereas Dan Patrick wanted to blame black people for vaccine hesitancy, you seem keen to hold up black and brown communities as some kind of sympathy ploy. You’re trying to say that because some black and brown people are vaccine hesitant, then criticism or mockery of any vaccine hesitant persons constitutes mockery of black and brown people by implication and association. That’s what I meant by “sympathy shield.” So maybe you are not racist, but you’re not above questionably invoking black and brown people to mute criticism of mostly right-wing white people. You being part of a Latino family does not absolve you of all possible racism. As someone who is also part of a Latino family, I know from experience plenty are keen to play up their European extraction and disavow being brown or mestizo.
“remember when Team D leaders were calling the safety of vaccine into doubt because it was being developed while Team R was in power?”
I recall Kamala Harris saying she would not trust Trump to vouch for the vaccine’s safety, but that she would support it if credible medical authority, like Dr. Fauci, vouched for it.
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/jul/23/tiktok-posts/biden-harris-doubted-trump-covid-19-vaccines-not-v/
Credible medical authorities like Fauci did support the vaccine and Team D leaders supported it fervently and Biden and Harris among others got the vaccine publicly. Your insinuation that there’s equivalency between Team D and Team R on vaccine hesitancy is ridiculous. Vaccine resisters are predominantly in Team R. If members of Team D are vaccine hesitant, the Democrats don’t reflect or amplify that in party policy. It’s the Republicans anxious to suborn and support vaccine hesitancy through policy and pronouncements, blocking vaccine mandates (or even masks) wherever they can.
“you choose to do so while cowering behind a cover of anonymity”
Virtually everyone on this blog posts anonymously or with a pseudonym, including the author, so rail against it elsewhere. If you find anonymity distasteful, don’t comment on anonymously run internet forums.
“No doubt posting it will give you a delicious dopamine rush (far more so, no doubt, than if you ever were called upon to do so face-to-face)”
Not sure about that. Those vaccine resisters pounding on teachers’ car windows saying “we will find you” or attacking doctors at schoolboard meetings seem to be rushing out lots of dopamine. You probably would not prefer it if somebody came to your office or home to express their hostile opinions to you in person.
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