A gear switchin reader writes about ASA’s n’stuff:
Not to switch gears or anything, but I can't let a couple of those comments pass. Coordinating depos is something that I always try to do. Perhaps the failure to get notice or my messages is as a result of your staff -- you acknowledged that their skills leave something to be desired. I usually have my secretary coordinate with the ASA's secretary since trying to reach an individual asa, get him on the phone, and coordinate a depo is incredibly time-consuming. Especially when you consider the fact that an ASA attending a depo is something that occurs only slightly more frequently than a lunar eclipse.
As far as furlough requests are concerned, lets try to keep in mind that "defendants" are human beings, some of whom have families and people who depend on them. Some of the requests are obvious bullshit, but is is so unbearable that you can't even sit through the request? One thing ASA's need to understand (and Judges too) about being a defense attorney is that sometimes you have to play a role and ask for something you know you're never going to get, something you wouldn't even grant if you were the Judge. You do it because the client, who has everyone arrayed against him, wants to believe that someone is in his corner and is looking out for him.
As far as Judge's and campaign contributions are concerned, I guess your suggestion is that they look after defense attorneys. In my experience, the best you can hope for as a defense attorney is a fair judge. ASAs seem to think that anyone wearing a black dress who doesn't sentence like Judge Glick and who is not actively assisting the prosecution is defense oriented. Its nonsense. When was the last time you saw anyone win an election with the slogan that they're going to protect people's constitutional rights? It doesn't happen. Anyone who runs for office, Judges included, wants to be perceived as tough on crime.
And what about what happens at the end of a trial when the defendant is found guilty by one of these Judges we've been giving money to? Has anyone, following a trial, ever gotten a better sentence than the offer? Surely there must have been a trial one time where, after hearing the facts of the case, the Judge said "golly, that really wasn't as bad as the a-form made it sound. That offer really was too high." If that has ever happened, I've never heard of it. On the other hand, I've had clients who were offered probation if they'd plead to multiple felony counts, who went to trial and were found guilty of a misdemeanor, and who were sentenced to the max. I had a client who was offered probation, went to trial, was convicted of a first and second degree misdemeanor. The Judge gave the kid 364 and 60 days. Consecutive. Those darn defense oriented Judges. It pisses me off to no end. Defendants are punished harshly for going to trial. The law says that a judge cannot punish someone for exercising his right to a trial, but they do and we all know it and we do nothing about it. I understand that the system would break down if everyone went to trial and that there has to be some incentive for plea bargaining. But Judges who automatically max people out without a thought or a care are a disgrace and should not be sitting on the bench.
Lastly, as far as your complaints about your caseload and so forth is concerned, keep in mind that we have to run offices, pay staff, market ourselves, bring in business, collect fees and appear in front of different judges in different courtrooms, different courthouses, and different cities. I got paid jack shit as a PD, but in retrospect, I should have had no complaints about the work load.On your other points, I agree. Prosecutors should be treated with respect, and I do. That's my nature, not to mention the fact that it is good for my client. Trying to continue a case because Mr. Green hasn't shown up, and the case is a year old is inappropriate.There are lawyers who throw the phrase "prosecutorial misconduct" around pretty liberally. Its not right, but everyone knows who these people are and they have no credibility.
Rumpole says, very thougtful post with excellent points.
And another reader weighs in:
Yes, there are problems at the SAO (like everywhere else), but, for the most part, the SAO is what you make of it. The ASA's who care about what they do and work hard are treated well and have good experiences. The rest don't deserve to.(yes, I am a former Miami-Dade County prosecutor)
And a reader interested in fun asks:
I know the conventional wisdom is that the SAO is no fun because its all law and order types. Is this true? Or is there more to it?
Rumpole replies: You haven’t lived until you’ve partied with Kathy Fernandez Rundle.
See You In Court.
When you see something that is not right, not fair, find a way to get in the way and cause trouble. Congressman John Lewis
JUSTICE BUILDING BLOG
WELCOME TO THE OFFICIAL RICHARD E GERSTEIN JUSTICE BUILDING BLOG. THIS BLOG IS DEDICATED TO JUSTICE BUILDING RUMOR, HUMOR, AND A DISCUSSION ABOUT AND BETWEEN THE JUDGES, LAWYERS AND THE DEDICATED SUPPORT STAFF, CLERKS, COURT REPORTERS, AND CORRECTIONAL OFFICERS WHO LABOR IN THE WORLD OF MIAMI'S CRIMINAL JUSTICE. POST YOUR COMMENTS, OR SEND RUMPOLE A PRIVATE EMAIL AT HOWARDROARK21@GMAIL.COM. Winner of the prestigious Cushing Left Anterior Descending Artery Award.
46 comments:
Judge Glick is a damn fine judge who walks talks and acts like a Judge should. He has spent his proffessional life in the building and knows his business.
He has sentenced one of my clients to life, and has also granted our motion supressing half a kilo of heroin.
He is always respectful, Polite, and formal,but admittedly does not suffer fools gladly. Be careful how broad a brush you paint with
I'd give my left nut to sleep with Kathy. She has that come hither look.
M. Lando
mabey you can get a kathy / flora seff toofer
State Attorneys are poorly trained and understaffed,especially in county court.They receive little direction other then to follow "office policy".Many office policies or "chiefs pleas we may not agree with but we are to follow or be prepared to explain our reasons and have problems.Some Judges understand this problem,some do not.Perhaps the judges could help us by speaking with the State Attorney.The Public Defenders receive more training,perhaps more training on flim flam,abd definately more latitude in handling of case(not to exclude much more compensation.
From those needing help.
i think it's a stretch to say that public defenders get "much more compensation."
I was in Courtroom 4-9 on Thursday and Judge Sheldon R.Schwartz was the judge.The courtroom was more than packed,with defendants and attorneys.I was later told,this was the largest docket ever set before a county court judge/over three hundred matters set.
the court took attorneys out of turn,spoke to those present in terms they were able to understand,assisted non-represented defendants(including suggesting they get an attorney and go to trial),made the state follow the law and not merely reset matters but dismiss matters and I could go on and on.
Judge schwartz was the nicest guy as an attorney many years ago,willing to and assisting everyone and he remains the same way today.perhaps he is more demanding today,but such is necessary in order to be a good judge.
To the ASA whining about a "lack of training:" Are you kidding me? August hires receive 4-5 weeks of training before hitting the courtroom for real. They are provided EXTENSIVE training materials and Graham has hundreds of videos on various topics. Quite crying and go study; you get far more support at the MDSAO than almost anywhere in the country.
The biggest outrage is that apd's salaries and those of asa's are tied together in legislature but apd's are allowed to handle cases outside of their apd practice as long as there is no conflict and asa's cannot. I know of at least one circuit court judge who was an ex-pd who used to do real estate closings.
as to the whining defense attorney about Judges sentencing harshly what you fail to mention is that if you dont actually have the gall to request a trial and interrupt a judges lunch they will ALWAYS EVERY TIME give you the bottom of the guidelines on every career criminal case unless the media is watching.
quit your griping and realize that the Judges in Dade have your back unless you do the worst thing of all which is make them try a case.
The biggest problem with the State Attorney's Office is that it has a escalator approach to advancement. If you stay long enough, you will keep going higher and higher. Unfortunately, a good amount, but by no means the entire management, are absolutely incompetent. They do not care about the work, they do not care about their subordanates, and as long as the follow what the office calls guidelines, but what can be effectively termed the "do not allow the State Attorney to be embarrassed" rule, they continue to be promoted (and paid much more). All of us can think up great examples of this. Why don't you guys and gals try to list some.
seems to me like their are also some good prosecutors working for rundle. hogue, lasser, denaro, johnson, centerino, levine, waxman etc.
the problem at the dade sao is the lack of discretion pit prosecutots have to dispose of bullshit cases.
that problem arises from the ridiculosly low pay. Because of the low pay you have high turnover and rapid advancement,which leads the administration to not trust the pit prosecutors because they feel they are too green. This leads to low morale and adds to the turn over.
You can't support a family on what they pay, so to stay you have to be extreemly dedicated or have family money.
The bottom line is we need to pay them real lawyer wages. It will improve the system for everyone
dont forget the other two problems that are the reasons for lack of discretion - fear of both The Miami Herald and John Rivera
I’m amused by the post that says that APD’s training is in flim flam. I’ve heard this attitude from other ASA’s too, a contempt for advocating the externalities of the charge. A chief complement ASA’s pay to their superiors is that they are methodical. I have heard a lot of directs that are muddled by an unimaginative elicitation of the elements and venue. Or the ASA voir dires about math problems and baking cakes. (I heard that the baking cake hypo has been banned.) The jury hears this stuff as lawyer tricks. The ASA mentality is that what really happened is in the A form and the rest is ‘ink the octopus is spraying to defend itself.” This is impermissible argument but widely held belief. I think the ASA’s would be more effective if they understood more about the flim flam. The case is about the flim flam to the jury- that’s the point of the jury of peers. Besides if you need a cheat sheet for the elements you can always read the information. That’s what they taught us-
Re the comments that the judges are state oriented: HA! Let's be honest.....there's no reason to BS each other on this site.
Many Dade judges are soft as butter (there are many more "pro-defense" judges than "pro-state" judges). Those of us who have experience in other counties and or federal court know that's true. There is no better place to be a defendant in Florida than Miami-Dade County (and, it's not because of the prosecutors. The MD SAO has many fine prosecutors. In fact, I'd venture to say that all of the Senior Trial Counsel and many of the Division Chiefs are excellent lawyers).
Where else is sale of cocaine treated like a misdemeanor? Or attempted murder treated like an aggravated battey? I could go on and on. We complain about the min mans, but the truth is that we only have ourselves (lawyers and judges) to blame.
when you use the term pro-state, to describe Judges, what you actually mean are judges who tend to sentence harshly for even minor transgressions. A better definition of State oriented Judges are judges who side with the State or even deffer on rulings from the bench.
Asas should be no more in favor of excessive sentences than defense lawyers. Let the punishment fit the crime.
Lucky for us in Dade we have Judges who are thoughtful and mostly reasonable at crunch time
Thank god for the person who posted before Jason " I love everyone" Grey. You are right on the money. Dade Judges are softer than butter. Some days you cant find the courthouse because they give it away several times a week. You couldnt be more correct when you mention other counties. In other Counties every single person who is under 20 who committs armed robbery doesnt get a 4-2 as YO on the tough end of the spectrum and boot camp on the weak end of the spectrum.
thats a good point - we need to put more kids and teenagers in prison for 20 years, so they can get out when they're 40 and commit more crime - let's not talk about the ones who get a YO or boot camp sentence and go on to lead normal lives.
Oh yeah. Armed robbery is just a rite of passage. Why don't we just give them a pat on the head and tell them not to do it again?
PS---you're welcome "anonymous." It's like these judges forget that they, their families and friends live in the area. They're too worried about being re-elected and not worried enough about everyone's safety.
Uhm, don't judges give shoot-em-to-the-moon sentences so that they WILL get re-elected?
As the Miami crime rate continues its dramatic rise from the quaint days of the early 80's, it's time to lay blame squarely: butter-soft judges.
And why do we have butter-soft judges? Look no further than our touchy-feely governor and Dade's leftist electorate.
very good comment, the last.
You guys are crazy. How 'bout a State Attorney's Office that has prosecutors fresh out of law school so bogged down that to go to prison here, you have to really harm someone physically. The judges have nothing to do with the pleas that are being offered. The blame falls squarely on the State Attorney. She has hired inept management personnel who do not know how to deal with a person so as to foster a good working relationship. The idea that the ASAs are fleeing the office in droves short of thier committment because of money is crazy. If the office was a good place to work, they would stay, it is a great job. But, when you put morons like Howard Pohl and Don Horn in charge, people who couldn't carry a conversation with a normal person on the street, then you get the current situation. Put some leaders in charge there and you will see the ASAs start to take their jobs seriously.
The SAO's problems do not start with Howard and Don. They do a fine job.
The SAO's problems really start with an utter lack of resources. The office is paying for over a decade of neglect from the legislature. The fact is that the office cannot compete with law firms anymore (consider the dramatically smaller pool of qualified applicants). It was bad enough when prosecutors were paid 1/2 as much as their civil law counterparts. Now it's closer to 1/3 (with nowhere near the financial advancement potential that civil lawyers have today). In the mid-'90's, the Herald said that the office would have to triple its number of prosecutors to be as "well" staffed (right) as the Bronx DA. What's happened since? Very little. These prosecutors work for peanuts burdened by a workload that never ends.
Regardless, it's not just about sentencing. As anyone who practices in the building knoews, some county judges are dumping misdemanor cases (including serious ones like DUI) left and right while some circuit judges rule for the defense at every opportunity.
I love the comment that Howard Pohl and Don Horn are such morons that they couldn't carry a conversation with a normal person on the street. Very funny and, almost certainly, factually correct.
Dade's leftist electorate? For judges???? What???? What the hell does ideology have to do with which idiots run for , and win, judgeships. And Bush appoints a pretty wide variety of folks to the bench,you'd have to admit. The reason pleas are so much better in Dade than other areas of the state is b/c the asa's are, for the most part, scared of trial.
asa's are not scared of trial (I am a defense lawyer). They are scared of losing because their office doesnt support them. Pleas are better here because of volume, lost witnesses, and victims who are criminals themselves.
No, not really. It's b/c they're scared. Ever practice in Broward? West Palm? Same volume per asa, same criminal victims, same disappearing, transient witnesses, and much worse pleas. Let's face it: If you hold out until the jury's right outside, the State will almost always cave, if at all posiible for them.
Angry Dan's not afraid....
LOL. Right. Next you're going to say that jurors in Miami and anywhere near as conservative as in Palm Beach or Broward. LOL.
PS---the caseloads aren't close. Besides, if any ASAs are "scared" of trial, it's because some of our illustrious judges exclude evidence every chance they get
40,000 felony arrests per year.where would you them? You would need 100 felony divisions to try them. And what idiot decided it was a good idea to send people to prison for anything other than violent or egregious crimes. It dont seem like it is working.
JGrey-- hate to break it to you but crime has plummeted since the enactment of all of the career criminal sentencing schemes. Seems to me like it is working just fine sending repeat offenders to prison.
True, repeat offenders are different. But consider this; No one would forgo trial if the ultimate sentence was the same as the plea offer. So you either got to threaten them with scary possibles, or entice them with sweet deals. It is said You can catch more flies with sugar... The problem is that too many people take pleas because they feel they cant risk trial. The fact that we think in terms of risk, has a chilling effrect on our use of the jury trial which when you get down to it is what seperates us from a police state. I dont trust the govt do you?
ASA's have pretty high caseloads, no doubt about it, but I'm rarely able to get one on the phone after 5:00. It seems to me as if the place empties out after 5:00. Am I wrong about that? If you're serious about your job -- or at the very least, serious about becoming good at your profession -- a little bit of overtime is not an unreasonable thing to expect.
For a discussion on why crime has plummetted, see "Freakonomics" by Stephen Levitt.
i have gone 3 weeks with only one return asa phone call. i expect ed mcman to call me before the asa
the state cant cave unless a DC is around, so defense atty's, get the jury in the am, cuz after liquid lumch, the dc is gone and the asa cant make a decision by herself. chief, wherefor art thou?
ASAs don't stay late to answer calls. They stay late to get work done (often because they waste so much time in court on frivolous defense motions). Many choose not to answer the phone. It doesn't mean they're not there.
ASAs could save themselves a lot of work by taking a few minutes to speak with defense attorneys and trying to work their shit out. Instead, they offer ridiculous pleas... because they don't know shit about their cases... and force defendants to roll for trial on stupid/worthless cases... therby wasting everyone's time. Lazy ASAs piss me off! It's frightening how much power they have fuck with people's lives just by not doing their jobs.
Jane Doe........easy for you to say. ASAs who try to keep up with their caseloads work ridiculously long hours and have to put up with defense attorneys who lie to them all day every day (many defense attorneys are honest and ethical, but, trust me, ASAs get lied to every day) and have bad attitudes, thankless victims who expect the death penalty for theft, and judges giving away the courthouse. All that fun, for half the money they could make elsewhere (or much less than half if they're any good). Gee, I wonder why so many ASAs are cynical and don't give you the time of day?
I agree that both ASA and APDs are woefully underpaid. But if their job situations are so terrible, they should quit whining and find new jobs instead of doing their (very important) jobs half-assed and then making excuses.
Jane Doe..........why do you think turnover is so high?
PS---being an ASA (I worked in the office for over a decade before resigning a couple of years ago) is an awesome reponsibility. Anyone worth a damn recognizes that and appreciates it. You're right that some prosecutors don't (and should leave). But, wrong to think that all of the frustrated prosecutors don't care about the job. The situation there IS terrible. That doesn't prevent people from doing their jobs. The only way things will improve is if:
1. The legislature starts taking criminal justice seriously and increases the pay, sets up a loan forgiveness program, properly staffs the SAOs, and stops making prosecutors fill out stupid paperwork that, at times, discourages appropriately merciful pleas
2. Judges start handling their cases, the victims, witnesses and prosecutors with the respect they deserve (way to many judges are more worried about being re-elected than protecting the community)
3. The SAO hires MANAGERS (or promotes prosecutors with good interpersonal skills into management positions) and stops promoting people to DC simply because they are great trial lawyers (often, the same skills that make people great trial lawyers ......aggressiveness, efficiency, tenacity, etc......make them poor managers). The top positions actually are filled with good people. The middle management positions are problematic (especially since these way to young middle managers are too burdened by heaving audits to learn how to manage)
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I would just like to take some time too thank the active members for doing what you do and making the community what it is im a long time reader and first time poster so i just wanted to say thanks.
why cant people stop blaming the judges and start blaming the system. its the fucking law itself. so many loopholes. its never clear cut. its always twisted with. Miami dade judges are only open minded and fair judges. its not right to sentence an 18 year old with no prior crime to a month in prison just because he had a tiny piece of marijuana. its ridiculous punishment. its ridiculous laws.
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