COMING THURSDAY: It was 1962. Kennedy was President. Castro was settling in in Havana and Miami had a brand spanking new courthouse no one wanted to work in.
If you're under 40- go away. Go tweet or Facebook or get a latte at starbucks. This isn't for you.
Today's post is very simple. Who's the best Judge you've ever appeared in front of?
State. Federal. Circuit. County. Have at it.
Our thoughts: Any discussion involving the best at the REGJB usually starts and ends with the late Judge Cowart. A very smart man. Great judicial temperament. A true southern gentleman. Usually responded to most inane objections with "bless your soul", but when he needed to apply his razor sharp legal mind, his reasoning was spot on. Is remembered for telling Ted Bundy when he sentenced him to death that in another circumstance he wished Bundy would have been a lawyer appearing before him "but you chose another path pardner...." A great and memorable line.
But time has passed and these days the discussion should be a bit more lively.
The hardest working Judge? That's easy. Tom Scott, both as a circuit judge in the then Justice Building and then as a district court judge, Scott set the bar very high. Janet Reno said she never saw a judge try more cases in one year than Scott did when he was in the Justice Building. But does he deserve discussion as the best? Perhaps.
We would put the late Rob Pinero in the discussion. Hard working, sensible, fair, he was everything you wanted in a judge. He earned being in this discussion and we'd take him in any case. Period.
In Federal Court we had the great pleasure of trying cases before Jose Gonzalez and Ned David, two of the very best we have ever seen.
County court judges often become circuit judges but some stay their entire career in county court and become damn good judges. Put the late Henry Oppenborn and the current Keieger-Martin in that category.
Judge Fred Moreno has to have a place at the table here. County court judge, circuit judge. district judge, chief judge of the southern district- he's done it all here in South Florida and done a damn good job every step of the way.
These are our thoughts, but what are yours? Make some nominations, explain your reasons, and perhaps we'll have a a few runoffs until we arrive at a winner.
See You In Court.
FYI: sitting north of the border does not, per se, eliminate you from this discussion, but for the purposes of this discussion, being a judge in Broward...well, res ipsa loquitor.
When you see something that is not right, not fair, find a way to get in the way and cause trouble. Congressman John Lewis
JUSTICE BUILDING BLOG
WELCOME TO THE OFFICIAL RICHARD E GERSTEIN JUSTICE BUILDING BLOG. THIS BLOG IS DEDICATED TO JUSTICE BUILDING RUMOR, HUMOR, AND A DISCUSSION ABOUT AND BETWEEN THE JUDGES, LAWYERS AND THE DEDICATED SUPPORT STAFF, CLERKS, COURT REPORTERS, AND CORRECTIONAL OFFICERS WHO LABOR IN THE WORLD OF MIAMI'S CRIMINAL JUSTICE. POST YOUR COMMENTS, OR SEND RUMPOLE A PRIVATE EMAIL AT HOWARDROARK21@GMAIL.COM. Winner of the prestigious Cushing Left Anterior Descending Artery Award.
103 comments:
Marc Schumacher and Roberto Pineiro for State Court Miami.
Christian Dunham
Federal:
Paul Huck. Intensely intelligent, completely fair, doesn't stay mad. Works you hard, but not as hard as he works. Always willing to listen.
Big props to Altonaga as well. And I have no doubt that Scola will be a great one.
State:
For me, a civil guy, it was David Miller. Again, fair, accessible, listens, lets you try your case.
Also, rest his soul, Steve Levine had the same qualities.
And Bobby e-Scola.
Arthur McGinnis , who never had a mean heart.
Jerald Bagley who always demanded your best.
Worst:
Phil Davis or Leslie Rottenberg
Two things off point that bother me.
Isn't it Illegal for Willard Romney to raise campaign fumds over-seas from foriegn nationals.
Do any other Jews feel insulted or offended that Willard visited the Western Wall and told us his message placed in the Wailing Wall included praise to his Lord & Savior , who I assume is Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints?
Best judge in a long trial: Peter Lopez. Others I have enjoyed: Katie Pooler, Luise K-Martin, Stan Blake, Rob Piniero to name a few....
Judge Jordan
DS...Follow this link to what Mitt really wrote.
I think Art McGinnis was a very nice man and worked very hard at his job. He earns a solid good from me, but not a great. Rest in peace.
J. Bagley. Interesting choice. Hard working. Very judicial demeanor. Hard to read. Would take him as a trial judge in any of my cases in a second. Nice nomination.
All good choices, Rumpole. From a career prosecutor's perspective, Stanley Marcus was the smartest and hardest working judge in federal court. Lenore Nesbitt was also great. But for two consensus picks, I'd have to go with William Hoeveler in federal court and Tom Carney in state court. Truly great judges.
Bert Jordan was a great trial judge. Only had the occasion to try one case before him but he exceeded his reputation and all I had heard about him. Perhaps the shortness of his tenure on the trial bench may work against him.
Paul Huck. Wow. Intense. Not a moment to rest or breathe. Very smart. Very hard working. Did the right thing in a very very unusual case I had in front of him. But never had an ear for the problems of a trial lawyer in getting ready and that mitigates greatness in my opinion.
Agree on Bagley
also Murray Goldman
No as a Jew I am thrilled by the high level of support Mitt has displayed for Israel. Second of all
Judaism teaches that there is much truth in other religions in fact Rabbi Irving Greenberg who is one of the most prominent Mordern Orthodox theologians in the world has pointed out that all religions that respect other religions and don't harm dissenters have perfectly valid covenants that must be treated with respect.
Thirdly most educated Jews do not use the term Wailing Wall but Western Wall. Wailing wall is viewed as a term of derision mocking the distinctive prayer style of Jews.
I have not taken Mitt's deposition about who he prays to but the Western Wall is a place where any Christian, Hindu, Buddhist, Muslim,
and any other member of a religious group that treats all other religions with respect IMHO is welcome to pray to whatever deistic configuration they are comfortable with.If you don't like his politics feel free to vote against but him but I'm not offended and many Jews are supporting Romney in this great powerful swing state called Florida
and don't seem to be offended.
Valerie Manno-Schurr Civil, Don S. Cohn County, last but not least an astute and fair Judge the Late Honorable Judge Steven Levine. Judge Levine was a Judge amongst judges magnanimity of character, he was very fair and impartial and stern when necessary. A lot of judges bring their personal bias on the bench which is a travesty.
Dennis Murphy.
David Troyer????!!!! A blast from the past!!!!
I loved Carney! He was great. I loved being in trial with him. Something weird would happen, as a young lawyer I would get into some difficulty and he would call me sidebar and say something like "hey! Genius. You're blowing it. sit down already." But he did it with warmth. He was a no nonsense practical judge.
I also had the pleasure of appearing before Marcus as a young attorney and some how he never forgot it and was always a gentleman and made me feel welcome after that- both in the district and circuit court. a real judge's judge.
Altonga. Period.
Man I'm watching Canada play Sweden in female soccer at the olympics. Its a soft porn festival if you like blondes.
Come after me! I'm a man! I'm forty!
C'mon, where's the love for Calvin Mapp?
Stan Blake & John Thornton. Yes, I am under 40.
I prefer to practice before judges who know the law and who challenge me to be a better lawyer each time I go before them - judges who are firm but professional - judges who have a sense of humor but control their courtrooms....
The best judges we have who I have practiced before are:
CIRCUIT:
Bertila Soto
William Thomas
Stan Blake
3rd:
Kevin Emas
Ivan Fernandez
9:19 has got to be either VMS or her mom. Because no one who has ever spent a minute in her courtroom would rate her competent, let alone great. One of the worst of the worst. [That's another thread, I suppose.]
State Court: Bob Scola, David Miller, Piniero -- and I had a great trial in front of Judge Hubbart.
Federal court: Altonaga is very hard to beat. Also tried a couple to Turnoff and enjoyed the experience a lot.
Federal Court:
Best of the Oldies:
No one better than Joe Eaton, a good common sense judge with a healthy
suspicion of the government. Nothing was ever dull in his courtroom. You could swear he was wearing bibb overalls and smoking a corn cob pipe.
Also great was Eugene Spellman. I miss the good old days!!!
Worst Federal Judge: Zlock!
State Court:
We are so lucky to currently have many Great Judges past and present many of which have already been mentioned. I would like to add:
Manny Crespo,
Dennis Murphy, Rosa Rodriquez, Darren Gayles, Robin Faber and Mary Jo Francis to name just a few.
Kathy didn't show up last night to a Judicial Candidates forum that she was scheduled to take part in. Tonya Brinkley's candidate was also a no show at the NAACP forum. That makes two times, Kathy hasn't showed up and Don Horne was not allowed to speak on her behalf. I think it's time Kathy put her money in a nice annuity and get ready to transition out of office.
The prosecution she's dragging her feet on involves a worker of hers. That's a big conflict of interest, a SPU should be brought in
Jordan - Federal
Soto - State
Robin Faber is nor worthy to be on this list. He doesn't know the law and has gets testy way too often. Darren Gayles can be a great judge but he is too afraid of his own shadow right now. I do agree that Murphy, Rosa and Mary Jo are great judges.
Best federal trial judge - Jordan hands down
State Court: Bob Scola, Victoria Platzer, Steve Levine, Melvia Greene Federal(and I know I'm dating myself): James Kehoe-never had a better, fairer trial Agree with 10:50. Anyone who thinks VMS is the best has to be related to her. They cannot have tried any cases.
William Hoevler and Rudy Sorondo
Judge Salter has the best demeanor at the Third! It is a pleasure to appear before him.
thornton aint getting the federal appointment
you heard it here first.
can you say "will thomas..."
Federal Judge William Hoeveler resembles the wise and intellectual person that all lawyers desire to preside over their trial.
Mary JO Francis? Please she's an idiot. She really has no clue as to what she's doing, plus she's very biased. A waste of a Judge
Judge Hirsch is the best there is, the best there was, and the best there ever will be........
Cal Mapp was a good guy but, not a great judge. He was a real good judge.
He started out as a negro police officer who was only allowed to arrest other negros. (That is the word they used back then)
He went to law school and became a prosecutor when almost nobody wanted a black lawyer around.
He was a judge for over 25 years and was respected.
I liked Cal and hope he is enjoying his retirement. He earned it.
Judge Arzola is as great a trial judge as has ever sat in the justice building.
Funniest: Paul Baker (State Court)
Most compassionate: James Paine
Most pragmatic: Norman Roettger and James Kehoe
Smartest: Stan Marcus
Best Voir Dire: Alcee Hastings
The judge to compare all others to: Herb Klein
Peter Lopez also gets a nod from me for giving a great
trial.
I prefer a learned Jurist. Bert Jordan and Rudy Sorondo always did their homework, and often knew more about preparing for the legal issues than the litigators.
On balance, including a true sense of decency - even when he must have thought that the lawyers were less than skilled - Jordan, hands down.
How can this discussion be had without mentioning Mario Goderich and Phil Cook, two of the nicest human beings and competent judges to wear a robe.
If you're talking the Third District, that's a different list: Hubbart, Dan Pearson,Ferguson, Shevin, Salter and Emas. All terrific.
Best state court judge: Bagley.
Circuit: Richard Margolius
County: Eric Hendon
Federal: Clyde Atkins
3:05:00 PM - The Third District has reversed Hirsch twice in one month! Doesn't seem to be the best to me.
If you're talking the Third District, that's a different list: Hubbart, Dan Pearson,Ferguson, Shevin, Salter and Emas. All terrific.
State Court - Berdy Soto. Hands down the best.
Rumpy:
I just saw the press conference Rod Vereen held and I am rather troubled. He made a number of allegations against Kathy Rundle involving the two alleged Hialeah absentee vote violators seemingly without any proof at all. Was it the truncated news report that I saw (by Jim Defede) or is he willing to level unproven and rather wild allegations just to try to win an election? I know elections can be dirty but this is for the chief prosecutor of the county! It makes me wonder if an office run by him would file charges with similarly flimsy evidence. What do you think? If you didn't see the 6:00 news I'm sure they'll be repeating the press conference at 11.
Sign me,
Curiously Concerned
Alfred (Fred) Nesbitt.
Cal Mapp was a great judge with a lot of perspective.
10:52 am, C. Clyde Atkins was another great old-timer in fed court.
A very well regarded judge in the really old times was W. F. Blanton from County Judge's Court. He handed probate matters and, according to one of the octogenarian clerks that used to work in the probate file room, "he was THE county judge".
Phil Knight was a great judge, too.
Don't forget circuit judges John "Jack" Tanksley and N. Joseph Durant and county court judges C. P. Rubiera, Arthur Winton, and Gerald "Fast Gerry" Klein.
Nice to see Vance Salter getting some recognition. He really does an excellent job on the bench and his opinions are well reasoned and well written. He also started the Rosemary Barkett Appellate Inn of Court which has put on many great programs and contributed to the legal community. Great judge!
For federal: Judge Anton, Middle District, Orlando Division. Wicked smart and gives you a fair trial every time.
For state: Judge Diane Ward. Although her judicial temperament on the bench leaves something to be desired, I don't know anyone who's tried a case in front of her, from either the state or the defense, who doesn't think that she gives a fair trial. Additionally, she has a pretty good nose for When to slam a defendant, and when to show some mercy. Plus, you have to be sorta wicked to run criminal division in Dade County--even with the lawyers.
Best federal Middlebrooks--smart fair lsitens to argument and never holds a grudge or gets mad at lawyers
Best State- peter Lopez guy listens, makes decisions and is always pleasant.
mary jo francis? the flying nun give me a break!!!!
Phil Knight was indeed a great Judge. Deserves mention in this discussion. Not so Judge Middlebrooks.
C. P Rubiera was a great county court judge. Loved to take the time and teach young lawyers which is a trait in judges not often discussed.
Peter Lopez & David Miller run great trials. Echarte does too - but he scares the jury!
I loved trying cases in front of Art Snyder great trial judge, calander on the other hand.... And nobody for Gerald wetheington ?
I first met Ed Cowart when I was in high school. My mother was one of the few woman ASAs and had a case in his courtroom. She introduced me and he took the time to talk to me and to tell me what a privilege and an honor it was to serve the community as a judge. Years later,I was working in the Leon County PDs office as a CLI, and I was selected to work on the Ted Bundy case because I was from Miami and they wanted a miami person on the team. Judge Cowart was appointed to hear the case by the Fla. S. Ct. He took control of a case that had deteriorated into a 3-ring circus. He was patient and willing to slog through the numerous issues presented by the case. He would listen to an hour of argument a summarize the positions in three sentences. He was a master at cutting through the BS both sides threw at him. He did it with class and aplomb, without once losing his temper. Bundy frequently complained about his jail conditions. Rather, than avoid the substance of the complaints by saying he didn't run the jail, he called the shift commander and told him to meet him at Bundy's cell in 30 minunte. He left the bench, went over to the jail with lawyers in tow, and held a hearing at Bundy's jail cell. I always felt that Judge Cowart was puzzled by the psyche of Bundy, but he knew his duty as a judge- hence, the "pardner" comment. When the judge said it, you could hear a pin drop in the courtroom because everyone knew what was coming next. Judge Cowart sentenced him to death in the next sentence without missing a beat. I didn't see Judge Cowart for a few years after that. Judge Cowart worked in the SAO when I worked there as an ASA. We became friends, and he used to joke that will the length of the death penaly process, he thought that Bundy would outlive him. Sadly, his prophecy came true. Judge Cowart left a legacy that will never be matched. I miss him and think of him every time I go into the courtroom and see his portrait.
David S. Markus
Hello 6:21 - you should not be surprised that Vereen is making unsubstantiated allegations against Rundle. Rundle ain't no saint, but Vereen has shown what an idiot he is by taking support from the most unsavory politicians in Miami and by failing to identify with any specificity what her office has done/faile to do that smacks of incompetence. He is just going through the motions with the hopes that his smarmy "charm" and Kathy's foes will put him into an office that he is completely unprepared to lead. Jesus Rod, you used to be someone... now you are just a hack.
Peter Adrien hands down.
Judge Ed Cowart was a great judge but not in the same relm as Judge Ed Newman.
The blog is great.So i like this .Thane You so much.
completely fair, doesn't stay mad. Works you hard, but not as hard as he works. Always willing to listen.
Arthur McGinnis , who never had a mean heart.
Jerald Bagley who always demanded your best.
Worst:
Altonaga:great temperament; intelligent; fair; Gold: diligent; intelligent; makes the right calls during trial.
Hands down the Q is the best trial lawyer.
Respect the Q
Fear the Q
Close your eyes.....become the Q
More importantly, who was/is the BEST DRESSED Judge? That's all that really matters.
Milli vanilli
Martin Kahn was, without doubt, the best person in front of whom I have appeared in 24 years as an attorney. He was patient, respectful, hard-working...in a word, a mensch in robes!
If you did away with the court appointed attorney system, many criminal practitioners would have to move to a different area of the law. That is not a bad thing. That is economics at work. As many have pointed out, the court appointed system was designed as a way for successful practitioners to give something back, not as a primary way for attorneys to earn a living. (If you have ever wondered about our need for anonymity wait to you read the posts from our colleagues in response to this. )
rumpole circa 2006
I loved Judge Kahn. He loved being a judge. He made the REGJB a fun place to work with things like a lasagna contest and lunches in chambers for the lawyers and staff that worked in court every day. He was a great Judge and I have heard he is enjoying retirement.
How do you fulfill the requirements of Giddeon and do away with court appointments?
We love today in an over regulated society. The legislature has taken discretion away from Judges who have spent 20 and 30 years in the legal system and given it to prosecutors who have spent 2-3 years as a lawyer. With clients often facing 20-50 years worth of minimum mandatories, the need for well trained and dedicated lawyers to help them navigate though the system has never been more acute. We all know that a defense attorney who knows the players and the law has a much better chance of getting waivers of min mans or making the correct decision to go to trial, than cheap hacks trying to scratch out a living by handling hundreds of cases for minimal amounts.
Loved Fast Gerry. The dude invented shumie time while shumie was still in grade school. Was able to handle a full county court calendar, do a dozen bench trials and still be in the golf course by 11:30 am every day.
Gerry was the man and in his day the ladies loved him.
Fast Gerry was the best. He was my hero and my model when I was on the bench.
NO MENTION ABOUT JOE FARINA RESIGNING effective 8/31/2012
I'm not going to fill the blog with negative anonymous snipping at judges on a "worst ever" topic. I do enough of that as it is for all of us. So I'm not publishing the comment.
THE CAPTAIN REPORTS:
JUDGE PANDO UPDATE ....
From the DBR:
With the ethics trial of Miami-Dade County Court Judge Ana Maria Pando seven weeks away, the attorney for the Judicial Qualifications Commission said at a Tuesday status conference he was still waiting for most of her phone records.
Lansing Scriven of Quarles & Brady in Tampa, special counsel for the JQC, said he had received phone records only for the past 90 days after requesting records dating back to 2010. Scriven said he is looking for phone calls and text messages between Pando and Mark Cereceda, a friend of the judge.
He owns several medical clinics that treat patients injured in car wrecks, and his clinics often are parties appearing in personal injury lawsuits in her court.
Cereceda asked Pando for an order to reinstate his company, Florida Wellness & Rehabilitation Center Inc., after it was dissolved for 163 days. She declined but wrote the state Division of Corporations on her official letterhead requesting it be reactivated. The division treated it as a court order, reinstating the corporation at no charge.
The JQC maintains Pando's letter "constituted the practice of law" and is forbidden by the state judicial ethics code.
A month after she sent the letter, Pando received four $500 checks for her re-election campaign from businesses owned by Cereceda.
Pando's attorney, Robert Josefsberg of Podhurst Orseck in Miami, assured the special counsel that the requested records had not arrived yet because of delays typical in dealing with telephone companies. He assured the court they would be provided soon.
Pando was scheduled for a deposition today, but that was postponed until more records are in hand for questioning.
Broward Circuit Judge Paul Backman, who is hearing the case against Pando, noted Pando faces a challenger in the Aug. 14 primary.
"We'll have more information once the election has happened," he said.
Another status conference was set for Aug. 22, and Pando's trial is set Sept. 18-19 in Miami.
Cap Out ....
Gerald Kogan and Edmund W. Newbold were pretty good too.
Al Sepe was not a bad judge when ruling strictly on the merits of the case.
Dear Rumpole,
The time does fly! It was good to see David Troyer my old boss in the SAO Narcotics Unit makeing an appearance.
I had the honor of being assigned to County Court Judge Henry Oppenborn, a highly decorated War Hero who served in the 82nd Airborne. His Court always opened with the Pledge of Allegiance.
In Circuit court Tom Carney was classic, but my favorite was Ralph Person(unfortunatley he had to resign)
The Judges were larger than life..Al Sepe..Ted Mastos..Phil Knight..Ellen Morphonious..Fred Moreno some great..some.... but never a dull moment..
Many of our best jurists today were ASA's and PD's in that time.
The Judges took time after trials to critique you..win or lose it was a special time to learn the ropes..
Without criticizing many of today's jurists.. many of the Judges were older..more experienced both in Law and life..it was a great time to be a litigator.
Bob P
Looks like the JQC wants to see if Pando wins before they bother with a trail.
I was working for Judge James Payne the day after the presidential "recount" that allowed Bush into office.
e said that he was sad to be an American to see this happen. I loved him for his honesty and at the same time his love for our country.
If Pando picked Bob Josefsberg, not only will he put a whuppin on the JQC, but by the end he'll have them apologizing and recommending her for circuit court. It's not enough to say that he is an attorney that judges (and federal prosecutors) turn to in time of need. He is an attorney that you feel lucky he has agreed to represent you. He is one of a kind and is that good a litigator.
How did we leave out Gerry Kogan! Thanks 2:19! He was one of the best! A true gentleman in every way.
Those chinese bad mitten dudettes need to call the Q pronto.
Anyone remember Dominic Kue. I was never in front of him, BUT knew him from the campaign trail. He was a hell of a guy .
What about the old County Court Judges who Did Jail cases and Bond Hearings:
Gerry Klein, Murray Klein, Arthur Winton , Fred Nesbitt
How about the Greek Judges:
C.P. Dick Lantz and Ted Mastos
DS: Didn't Meek Robinette do bond hearings?
Pando has two lawyers: Josefsberg and Catalano
Catalano actually beat the JQC once and is waiting for an opinion from the Supreme court on one he may win.
Josefsberg has a long history of representing politicians and winning.
How will they explain away this mess?
County Court - Judge Amy Karen
*Judge Andrea Wolfson should make this list in the future.
Circuit Court - Judges Soto, Glick, and Thomas
District Court - Seitz (Very respectful of attorneys and that goes a long way), Altonaga (gives a great trial), Middlebrooks
Magistrate - Judge John O'Sullivan (hands down the best)
County Court - Judge Amy Karen
*Judge Andrea Wolfson should make this list in the future.
Circuit Court - Judges Soto, Glick, and Thomas
District Court - Seitz (Very respectful of attorneys and that goes a long way), Altonaga (gives a great trial), Middlebrooks
Magistrate - Judge John O'Sullivan (hands down the best)
Nancy Pollock
12:30 is Catalano, who always blogs about himself anonymously and is the face of Pando's representation, not Josefsberg. Just check out the new channel 7 coverage, Josefsberg nowhere to be seen. All Catalano.
Hey Mr. 7:50 am, How many judges have hired you to get them out of trouble? I wonder what Mike did to make you hate him so much?
August 2 4:36 p.m. - Are you talking about Lenny Glick being a "good" judge? Are you kidding? He was the most condescending and rude judge I have ever known. I'm glad he is retired - where do you think his daughter gets her attitude from. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree!
Hey 12:50 and 7:56, why don't you just fess up to being Catalano, who gets his judicial clients by making the same clients--then I am happy to unmask and we can compare notes. I don't "hate Mike", just dislike tactics whereby he brags about himself anonymously and in the third person to make it look like others are singing his praises, when it is all self-promotion
Lenny was a great judge. Don't be fooled by his dry sense of humor..........he is a very nice and humble guy. He followed the law and played it straight and fair.
County court judges: I always liked Lando, Kreiger-Martin and Colby (too bad Colby self-destructed, he was a great judge). I also give Leifman a lot of credit for focusing on offenders with mental health issues. I agree that Wolfson is working her way onto this list. She was a great prosecutor and is making a great judge.
Circuit: I loved Lando. She knew the law and was very sypathetic to defendants with alcohol, drug and mental health issues (she never hesitated to deviate downward when she thought it was the right thing to do). Schu, Lopez, Emas, Piniero, also a pleasure. Farina also was great back in the day.
Rump, I'm curious who everything thinks the up and comers are (other than Andrea, who everyone knows about).
BTDT
Judge Farina resigned. Wonder if it has anything to do with that investigation into his wife being paid to work here while actually working for the federal government?
Lisa Walsh is an up and comer, she will end up in the 3rd one day.
Manno-Schurr? Seriously? Are you a lawyer or did you wander in here accidentally on your way to the Kardashian website?
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