A clothes contretemps has broken out among our fair readers:
Anonymous said...
Earlier this week I saw a young woman attorney at REG. She argued her point in high-heels, a knee length skirt and tank-top.Now... I've no desire to wear dresses and silk blouses, but I'm curious about this... Why must male attorneys sweat out court in suit and tie while women attorneys are allowed to dress "for summer."If male attorneys are required to wear long sleaves, shouldn't women? If male attorneys are required to wear long pants, shouldn't women be required to wear long pants or dresses. If men are required to wear ties, should women be allowed to wear v-necks?Would it be so hard or so wrong to create a gender neutral dress code which still lets women dress like women and men dress like men?
Anonymous said...
I am a female defense attorney and at the risk of sounding too conservative, I agree with 3:36. I will speak for myself. I wear tank tops all the time, but while in the courthouse, I always have my suit jacket on. I never take it off until I leave the courthouse. If I'm wearing a skirt, which I try to avoid, I always have on pantyhose. [Rumpole notes: Me too.] And I personally think it's inappropriate to wear open toe sandals (even if they have high heels) in court. Men have a dress code. Women should too. It's all about showing respect to the court system, although it often is not worthy of it.
THE CAPTAIN REPORTS:
Rumpole, I would like to get some feedback from attorneys and judges who read this blog. This issue was briefly discussed several weeks ago and I remember that Judge L. Schwartz permitted men to appear before him sans necktie.Here is the proposal (and you can add this to one of your polls if you want):FROM MEMORIAL DAY TO LABOR DAY, the courts will be on a summer dress code. This means that a male attorney may appear in court with either: long sleeve shirt and necktie, but no jacket OR dress shirt and jacket, but no necktie.That is the proposal, please give me your feedback.
Mr. Blackwell said...
This is supposed to be a noble profession. Why is it that we want respect but are willing to show none. Wearing appropriate clothes is a matter of respect. Respect for the Court, for the system, and for the public. I am not a used car salesman. Is it so difficult to wear a suit and tie? You must be kidding. Lets do court on the beach in speedos. We wonder why the publics trust and esteem for lawyers and the Courts are ebbing it is because we do not have a high enough opinion of ourselves. Lets not devolve to the lowest common denominator but elevate our profession. If you want to be a park ranger have at it. But, if you want to be a lawyer is it unreasonable to expect a certain amount of decorum from oneself and each other.
We have dresscodes for everything; schools, formals, and yes even Court
Rumpole replies: we would LOVE to be a park ranger. Where do we apply?
Anonymous said...once saw a top Broward attorney in Broward court with loafers and no socks.
Lost a lot of respect for him but no one up there seemed to mind.Hey 3:50 female attorney-give us more descriptions of your clothing ensemble- caliente!
Rumpole speculates that you must have been sitting around waiting to be called while the North of the Border Judge had a good chuckle at your expense.
Anonymous said...
It's 90 days people; no ties; the judges don't even wear ties under those robes. hey judges, remember when you had to walk through the parking lot in and our of the MJB in July. I SAY NO TIES IN JULY
Rumpole notes that this is a matter for our fearless leader. Yes, I am speaking of none other than Chief Judge Joe Farina (www imthechiefandyournot dot com. )
Appoint a Judge to lead a commission. Take testimony, issue a proposal for public comment, and adopt a rule. Or save everyone a lot of time and sign an order stating “from June 15 through Labor Day, attorneys shall be allowed to dress appropriately for summer, which can include not wearing a tie in court during calendar calls and hearings.”
Or something like that.
See you in court. We’re the one who uses a Windsor knot in our tie.
PS: The REGJB building manager has assured us that the new green awnings have been purchased from a very reputable Reputable Midwest company. The awnings are wind rated to 9 mph. As the building manager was overheard to say: “hurricane season is almost over. Let the next guy worry about it next year. I’m outta here.”
77 comments:
Dress appropriately ,Men should look like men Women should look like women,everyone should be who they are.I am glad women have given up trying to look like men.
If you go to court wear a tie and a jacket ,an appropriate bussiness suit (skirt or pants) or a robe (if you are a Judge).If you dont want to dress professionally Go get a job at the Gap
...or maybe just socks, a jock, and a mask? There should be some distinction between us and the clients.
payment plan lawyer and non-trial prosecutor uniform - rumpled wrinkled jacket and khakis (everyday)
Men should look like men.
Women should look like men.
What meaningless drivel.
A man in a speedo looks like a man.
A woman in a bikini looks like a woman. Neither example informs what is appropriate or innappropriate.
Do I look like less of a man if I dress without a tie and jacket?
Are high-heals and cleavage necessary to look like a woman.
Woman are allowed to dress comfortably. When it is hot, they wear sleavless blouses and thigh length skirts. Men are not allowed to dress comfortably in court. Ties, long pants, and long-sleeved shirts are de rigeur. The issue isn't "looking like a men or women", the issue is why women get the latitude to wear just about anything they want to in court.
I'd love to hear a good reason why women can wear sleavless blouses to court, but a man can't wear a short-sleaved oxford.
I'd love to hear a good reason why men wear jacket and ties to court while women are free to wear tube-tops under jackets.
"Dress Professionally."
No shit.
As a lawyer, you presumably know the next question... what is professional dress?
BE YOURSELF!
Did someone's Mom actually buy them some short-sleeved oxford shirts?
Rumpole,
Your posts have been reduced to dress codes and obituaries. Don't end up like so many professional athletes that stay too long. You gotta start thinking about retirement, soon.
I wear bra and panties underneath my suit and tie...does that make me any less of a man!!!
I say we all wear wigs and robes like in Old Bailey!
How you dress is a reflection of how you want other people to think about you and respect you. A courtroom should be a serious place where serious business is conducted in a professinal manner. If everyone dressed like he or she were at a Dolphin game, respect for the courts would decline. Most old timers can remember when jurors, witnesses, and even defendants wore suits and ties to court.
I think we should all dress for court like we are going to a dolphin game, and bring beer.
Maybe people wouldnt act like a-holes as much
Rumpole,
Your posts have been reduced to dress codes and obituaries. Don't end up like so many professional athletes that stay too long. You gotta start thinking about retirement, soon.
Rumpole sez:
I'm hanging on to break the record.
But while I'm doing that, lets see you do something better hot shot. Until then, keep reading.
you tell 'em rumpy!!!!
That's what they all say. Marino, Farve, Rice and Clemons. And Rumpole, you ain't no Clemons.
rump, dont worry, that was from some slob who doesnt care who dies - probably some unhappy hack lawyer
Friday Rump-o-meter
Top 5 Rumpole suspects
5. Phil Reizenstein- old hat already. Would ahve admitted it now under the pressure. Hates the dolphins and would not have written that stuipid poem. Well known Steeler Fan. 20-1
4. Lurvey/Lyons (L&L Twins) -still in the running 10-1
3. Howard Sohn- The dark horse no one talks about 7-1
2. Blecher/Shuminer/Altschuler-
5-1 funny guys, question on their writing ability.
1. A shocker- but heard a rumor that will not die down:
Eddie O'Donnell Sr and Eddie O'Donnell Jr. Answers the suspicious belief that Rumpole is more than one person, and combines Sr's old time knowledge with Jr's knowledge of the new dope. 9-5.
Dress COde discussions and right away bras and panties under a suit. Who let David Young in here?
Sy Gaer is Rumpole. His schtick in Court has thrown us all off his scent.
Sy doesn't know the difference between a laptop and a lapdance.
you people are ridiculous. all we are talking about is no ties for 90 days. nothing about anything less than that. my god, can you stick to the important poart of this discussion. NO TIES IN JULY is the slogan. now get with it and tell me what the big deal is if a male lawyer comes into court with a dress shirt and sportcaot, but no tie, when he is appearing for a calendar call, motion, etc.
NO TIES IN JULY
sportcoat
It AIN't the O'Ds. My money is on Phil/Alan/Lurv
4:08----you must not know Sy. He may not know squat about computers, but lap dances.........
Who is Rumpole? I don't know, but it seems safe to make certain assumptions.
1. Rump is a man.
2. Rump is 50+ years old.
3. Rump is straight and probably married.
4. Rump is childless.
5. Rump is Jewish.
6. Rump started his career in the Justice Building.
7. Rump was never a prosecutor.
8. Rump started out as one of BHB's APDs.
I'm pretty confident of my suppositions. I think numbers 7 & 8 knock out a lot of those frequently cited as Rumpole. It seems pretty obvious that Rump was once one of BHB's boys. I mean, Rump never takes pot shots at KFR. She could be caught at a cocaine-fueled porcine orgy, and Rump wouldn't mention it, but BHB's every failing is given top billing. What's that they say about family feuds being the most bitter?
You forgot
10. Rump is a complete ASSHOLE!
On November 7th, 2006, the good people of Miami-Dade County and Monroe County will VOTE either Yes or No for the retention of three Judges of the Third District Court of Appeal. Most people do not realize that the Third District Court of Appeal is the last appeal available to the citizens of Miami-Dade County and Monroe County on almost every legal issue. A loss in the Third District Court of Appeal almost always may never be appealed to the Florida Supreme Court, leaving a litigant only one appeal to the United States Supreme Court which will likely be denied very quickly. The United States Supreme Court accepts for review less than 1% of all appeals filed in their court, in addition just the printing cost of the briefs in this court will set you back $5-k.
The Third District Court of Appeal has literally in essence denied almost 50% of all the appeals filed by the citizens of Miami-Dade County and Monroe County, by issuing what is called a PCA, meaning the Court denies the review without any reason. Although the Florida constitution guarantees the right of appeal, the Third District Court of Appeal has side swiped this right by issuing a PCA denial of review. All PCA orders in Florida are NOT reviewable by the Florida Supreme Court and any attempt to seek review by the Florida Supreme Court will be denied on its face by the Clerk of the Florida Supreme Court (this decision is by choice of the current justices of the Florida Supreme Court). As noted filing an appeal to the United States Supreme Court is basically useless.
This November 7th, 2006, is the opportunity for the Voters of Miami-Dade County and Monroe County to send a message to the Third District Court of Appeal that we will not tolerate not being allowed meaningful appeals. An appeal is a right guaranteed by the Florida constitution, for example you could lose your, freedom, child custody, house, life savings and so much more by a trial court who might not follow the law and on appeal the Third District Court could simply say PCA without any explanation. Some have written on the subject that it is because of lazy Judges that sit on the Third District Court of Appeal that over 50% of the appeals are PCA denied without reason.
Miami-Dade County has been known as the capital of judicial corruption since the F.B.I. sting of the 90's titled "Operation Court Broom" that nailed several Miami-Dade Judges who took money bribes to fix the results of cases. In Miami it means so much more to get meaningful due process and provided a reason why you lose your freedom, house, car, life savings, etc;. When justice does not work in a town full of history of corrupt Judges it gives the appearance of impropriety. A detailed account of “Operation Court Broom” and the resulting indictments and trials, including the trial of Judge Sepe, is contained in the opinion in United States v. Shenberg, 89 F.3d 1461 (11th Cir. 1996), cert. denied sub nom. Sepe v. United States, 117 S.Ct. 961 (1997). CLICK HERE to read the details of this case.
No appeals Judge in any Florida appeals court has ever been removed by the voters. We believe it takes 51% of the voters to vote "NO" for the Judge to be removed. For a list of all the current Judges on the Third District Court of Appeal with picture and biography, CLICK HERE .
Here are the names of the Judges up for retention on November 7, 2006 :
Judge Leslie B. Rothenberg - Vote Yes or No
Campaign Treasurer:
Ramon A. Abadin, Esquire.
Judge Angel A. Cortiñas - Vote Yes or No
Campaign Treasurer:
Elena Maria Almeyda
Judge Richard J. Suarez - Vote Yes or No
Campaign Treasurer:
Steve Goldston
JUST SAY "NO" TO PCA'S
ummmm, interesting post.
THIRD DCA JUDGES RUN FOR OFFICE?
please, women can wear whatever they want all year around and no one will say a thing. Men are supposed to dress professionally and women are supposed to dress sexy and comfortable. As a woman, I know it's a double standard, but it's life. so just deal with it. OR you men can do as the judges do and on Fridays .wear jeans like they do. some of them really shouldn't wear them, they're way too fat. Sorry for the f-- word, robed ones. as a woman, I will wear my short skirt and high heels in trial and bend over in front of the jury to get my client off. Try that.
Anonymous said...
You forgot
10. Rump is a complete ASSHOLE!
Funny guy.
Anonymous said...
Who is Rumpole? I don't know, but it seems safe to make certain assumptions.
1. Rump is a man.
2. Rump is 50+ years old.
3. Rump is straight and probably married.
4. Rump is childless.
5. Rump is Jewish.
6. Rump started his career in the Justice Building.
7. Rump was never a prosecutor.
8. Rump started out as one of BHB's APDs.
I'm pretty confident of my suppositions. I think numbers 7 & 8 knock out a lot of those frequently cited as Rumpole. It seems pretty obvious that Rump was once one of BHB's boys. I mean, Rump never takes pot shots at KFR. She could be caught at a cocaine-fueled porcine orgy, and Rump wouldn't mention it, but BHB's every failing is given top billing. What's that they say about family feuds being the most bitter?
RUMPOLE SAYS: exactly 50% correct. Meaning, a great batting average, but you also could have gotten the same results with a coin toss.
Rumpole what will it take. Who are you?
When will you tell the world?
Fashion question- how come no one in Miami wears seersucker suits? It's practically the mandatory summer uniform in other shvitzy places, like DC. I think they're kind of cool, but never had the guts to wear one.
Granted, Harvey what's his name looked like a jackass in his, but Dannie B looked like a million bucks!
FYI: Anthony Verdugo founder of that hate group "Christian Family Coalition" and "Take Back Miami Dade" was recently fined $11,850.00 by the Florida Elections Commission and the Fine was upheld on Appeal.
http://www.fec.state.fl.us/Final%20Orders/2006/016.pdf
Anyword of if this bigot ever paid the fine. All you judicial canidates who have been giving him money for his support, Shame on YOU!!!
Rumpole,
Your posts have been reduced to dress codes and obituaries.
Your criticism cuts both ways. This is a blog, not your TV. If the news is boring you, then contribute something besides snide comments. At least the Alan/Chris schtick ATTEMPTS to be funny.
The dress code for men is straightforward. Long pants, long sleeves, tie and jacket. For better or worse, women have no such rules.
The "dress-code" becomes an issue every few months because the lack of bright line rules creates a never ending tussle over the boundaries of acceptable female dress. For example, I understand Judge Gordon recently threw a hissy fit because a female court employee was wearing (gasp) a guayabera. I'm not sure what the complaint was... perhaps he thinks chicks need to show more cleavage.
My advice: Dress like D'Arce's (ex?)girlfriend and you'll be fine.
i dont understand what the big deal is
im wearing my pot leaf tie on wednesday. respect that!
AS A LONG TIME JBBB, I SEEM TO RECALL RUMPOLE TELLING US THAT HE WAS A FORMER PROSECUTOR.
Rumpole is a facilitator. His/her identity is not meaningful information. The service he/she provides bringing us together is what is important. We come here regularly to be entertained and perhaps informed. The speculation on Rump's identity, however, IS highly entertaining to me, and I don't even practice in Florida (yet). Would this irrepressible Blog evaporate once Rumpy is outed?
As for boring, that is the responsibility of the contributors. Rumpy is the spark; it is up to us to fan the flames.
In closing, I hope someone answers why seersucker ain't the thing down there. P.S. For those of us monolingually challenged, please define "shvitzy."
Seersucker looks stupid, straw hats look stupid.
For a Darrow vs. Bryant match up it was a good look; ’06 Miami
Not so good. ON a different note, I had a Dui trial in front of J. Mcwhorter last week.
It was an extremely frustrating experience, not recommended.
Kvetch!,Quejarse!, Complain! in any language you criminal defense lawyers are a bunch of whining crybabies! Suck it up wear a suit and take your lumps
another campaign, another election day, another day to raise money, another day to blog, another day to waste time on useless information.
3:17 take your meds.
12:47 Rumpole is still a Complete ASSHOLE!!!
Jaosn, dont worry, you wont have judge mcwhorter to kick around anymore - patty will come in and if the cop shows up you can plea no contest and she'll withhold the points, unless you're gay.
LOL
I don’t do much traffic work. I was talking about a Dui Jury trial.
I do not understand the “gay” comment.
Alan: Hi. This is Alan.
Chris: And I’m Chris.
Alan & Chris: And we’re Alan and Chris.
Alan: But not the Alan and Chris on the blog.
Chris: Right. We’re the real Alan and Chris.
Alan: And we want to ask the person doing the posts to stop.
Chris: It’s not fun.
Alan: It’s not funny.
Chris: I was supposed to say that.
Alan: Just keep going.
Chris: You stole my line jackass.
Alan: I knew you were too stupid to do this joint post. Just go do your own.
Chris: Fine.
Alan: Fine.
Chris: You always have to have the last word.
Alan: Do not.
Chris: See?
Alan: Say goodbye Chris.
Chris: Goodbye Chris.
Alan: What a dork. See what I have to work with?
Chris: This is over.
Alan: Nothing is over until I say it is.
Chris: Now you’re doing lines from Rambo?
Alan: I can do what I want, I’m the boss.
Chris: Are not.
Alan: Am too.
Chris” I’m going.
Alan: Good riddance.
Did Jason say DUI?
Reiff Blecher Best Hersch
DUI guys.
With some you do better
with them you do worse.
Jason ; the gay comment was referance Patty whatshernamethisweek endorsing that gay hate group during her bid to unseat Judge McWhorter. Patty specifically dismissed the savedade pro-gay group to join the haters and bigots over at the Miami Dade Christian Coalitions a/k/a Gay Haters a/k/a bigots.
Jason ; the gay comment was referance Patty whatshernamethisweek endorsing that gay hate group during her bid to unseat Judge McWhorter. Patty specifically dismissed the savedade pro-gay group to join the haters and bigots over at the Miami Dade Christian Coalitions a/k/a Gay Haters a/k/a bigots.
Chris. are we gay?
Alan. Yes we are thats why we are sitting at the computer taking turns typing, STOP THAT! LET GO OF THAT! You are so bad.
funny, I always assumed chris was a woman.
thats funny because I really do not know . Oh well ... man he/she is.
Speaking about DUI, it doesn't matter that there was open containers in the front seat in open view, that the driver got out and puked during the roadsides and that he smelled like a bar and had a nose like Rudolph the Reindeer (what does a bar smell like anyway?), the bottom line is the officer testified he didn't remember why he pulled him over anyway, just running over a stop sign is not reasonable suspicion for DUI and subjectively the officer didn't have a clue, so Wong Sun, State how about that nolle prosse?
Drunk asas should'nt blog
who are the new judges that just got appointed to county court?
Faber, patty and who cares
new appointed judges - cristina miranda and victoria brennan - both former serious prosecutors who will not see any reason why someone who may go to jail for 6 months needs more than one continuance.
GOVERN YOURSELF ACCORDINGLY SPORTCOAT WEARING CROWD
You govern yourself turd nugget.
E.O.Jr. is way too frikin stupid to be Rumpole, or any part thereof and E.O.Sr. is way too whinney to be posting -- PLUS, posting under a nome de plume is not in his style. The guys ego is way too big for that.
Does anyone know why John Priovolos left the SAO? Did anyone ever have problems with him?
Priovolos left? Great kid. Spoke to him last week he seemed happy at the SAO. Probably left to go star in reality television, or got a well paying job at a civil firm.
hey 10:44
Eddie O probably spanked your ass with your stupid generic element driven arguments during trial. Your a turd of the highest order.
eo'd sr has a huge ego?
what planet are you on?
he easily gets the award for nicest guy in the building.
you must have a miserable, miserable irrelevant life.
I confess to the miserable irrelivant life...but...the guy has a huge ego. Neither of the E.O.s ever spanked me. They had a penchant for taking continuances on any DUI case that ever approached going to trial. No doubt sr. deserves props for being a great trial lawyer, I came and watched him just to learn; but that does not mean he is humble. Come on guy. You don't have to lie to make friends, I will like you for who you are.
10:21---I can easily understand why you'd think EO has a huge ego; he is very theatrical. And, he's a pain in the ass on the record (then again, I've never seen him do anything improper).
However, when you get to know him (and I hope for your sake you do), you'll find that he's actually a very down to earth great guy. If you ask, he'll even throw some trial tips your way.
Not everybody is how he or she appears on the record.
------A former long time prosecutor
waaa waaaa waaaaa, but eddie o sr is a better lawyer than me, waaa waaa waaa, so i have to trash him here. waaa waaa waaa
whos trashing him. I said he is a good lawyer. What is wrong with being ego....I mean "theatrical?" Just saying guys and gals, guy ain't Rumpole because he wouldn't post anonymous. And, he is a better lawyer than me---for now.
As you may recall, my boss never allowed me to wear anything other than closed-toe shoes and stockings, a profesional looking suit that was not "sexy" and a generally "well-groomed" demeanor. Juries, clients, etc. look at you and treat you the way you appear. Don't expect them to search your soul...Perception is more important than reality any day of the week in your appearance. It's a fact. If you want to be treated like a professional, dress like one....and make sure no client addressed you by your first name---unless it's your Mom or Dad. Cordially, Ms. Della Street
8:38:32,
Maybe if you would make a record, you could get something other than a PCA.
PCA, bad judging, or bad lawyering?
Lazy ass judges playing too much golf.
John Priovilos did not leave the SAO.
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