WELCOME TO THE OFFICIAL RICHARD E GERSTEIN JUSTICE BUILDING BLOG. THIS BLOG IS DEDICATED TO JUSTICE BUILDING RUMOR, HUMOR, AND A DISCUSSION ABOUT AND BETWEEN THE JUDGES, LAWYERS AND THE DEDICATED SUPPORT STAFF, CLERKS, COURT REPORTERS, AND CORRECTIONAL OFFICERS WHO LABOR IN THE WORLD OF MIAMI'S CRIMINAL JUSTICE. POST YOUR COMMENTS, OR SEND RUMPOLE A PRIVATE EMAIL AT HOWARDROARK21@GMAIL.COM

Thursday, November 18, 2010

Leyritz guilty!!!!! (of misd only) acquitted on manslaughter !!

EXTRA INNINGS: The jury deliberations in the Leyritz case have gone into extra innings as the Jury initially signaled to the Judge that they were deadlocked, and then went back into deliberations.
"We have reached a stalemate," said a note read to the court by Gold at 6 p.m. Friday. "We have completely decided that we will not agree on this decision. How do we proceed?

Judge Gold read the Jury an Allen charge and sent them home for the night. Deliberations will resume Saturday.

Rumpole says: The alternate said he would have voted for acquittal, which is a sure sign of a conviction as any trial lawyer will tell you. The defense should take the deadlock and run.

The Herald has a story and a You tube video of Miami's finest on Halloween providing some "street adjudication" and other forms of "counseling" to a suspect. The video and story is here (and we couldn't find the blasted thing on you tube no matter how hard we tried.)

FRIDAY UPDATE: The Leyritz jury is out and we will be providing minute by minute analysis of the jury deliberations.....or perhaps we'll just post the verdict after someone give us a tip.

Will the Prosecution in Broward get shut out like the Fins did last night?
Stay tuned.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

North of the Border the jury is out in the Jim Leyritz trial. We can't call it a DUI/Manslaughter trial because the Judge JOA'd the state on that one. A Driving with Unlawful Blood Alcohol Level (UBAL) Manslaughter charge is the only felony remaining.

Say what you want about Dave Bogenschutz, but he earned his fee in this one. He did a great job no matter what the outcome.

We still can't figure out how he got the issue of the decedent's impairment out before the jury when the judge had ruled it inadmissible pre-trial.


DOM posits that Supreme Court Judges are tech-deficient.


What do you do when you get arrested after bringing a gun to the drug deal set up by your stripper girlfriend? Well if you're a Federal Judge you plead guilty, and probably avoid the 924(c) 5 year consecutive minimum mandatory for using a firearm during the commission of a felony.
It may be campy, but Judge Camp will be pleading guilty real soon according to ATL.

Short week next week. Court closes after Wednesday.

See You In Court.

46 comments:

Anonymous said...

He got the issue out because the State's witnesses opened the door. Anyone who has anything negative to say about David Bogenschutz obviously doesn't know the man. He is arguably the best defense attorney in the state. He does state and federal work. He is an an excellent appellate lawyer, represents clients before bar proceedings and is the go to guy in Browierd. He is quite simply, a lawyers lawyer. He is a kind and decent man. I have had the opportunity to get to know him. I hope I can be in my career half the attorney that he is.

Anonymous said...

HR
From today's Herald
DS
No-panhandling zone widens near arena, theater
Miami commissioners nearly doubled the size of the city's no-panhandling zone Thursday, aiming to keep beggars away from Miami Heat games and arts performances that lure tourists and visitors to the heart of downtown.

Anonymous said...

From what I understand, one of the state witnesses testified to the decedent's BAL on cross and the State did not object. I don't think Bogenschutz backdoored it in. I believe that the witness was not instructed by the prosecutor on the judge's pretrial order.

Now this ASA got some flack in the Sun-Sentinel and whatnot, being accused of being inexperienced. I then come to find out that she's been practicing since 1991.

So bottom line - Broward ASAs are idiots. We all know that. I would place the trial skills of a Miami-Dade County Court ASA high above those of any Broward felony ASA. This surprises me since Broward ASAs are supposed to try every case and plea out/nolle prosse nothing.

The lesson to be learned is don't be afraid to push your cases to trial in Broward. For one, you're not going to get anywhere negotiating with the ASA, and two, they don't (by and large) understand a lot of the procedure.

However, the ASA's incompetence takes away nothing from Bogenschutz. He is one hell of an attorney. At the onset of this case, one look at the facts and you would write off Leyritz immediately. Young 30 year old mother killed, allegations of a running a red light with a BAL of .14? 99% of attorneys would ram a plea down his throat (c'mon Jim, those 4 years will just fly by!)

But this shows how good investigation, preparation, and trial skills can snatch victory from the jaws of certain defeat.

Now question - If the jury comes back NG on DUI manslaughter, not finding that his BAL was above the legal limit at the time of the accident, can they legally find him guilty of DUI/DUBAL? Wouldn't that be an inconsistent verdict??

Anonymous said...

@6:29 p.m.

You wrote:

"Or modern day christian missionaries who bring aid to third world countries ONLY if you listen to their proselytizing bullshit."

Fail.

Many thousands of believers went to Haiti and are still there as part of missions. No proselytizing. Just clearing rubble, building homes, cleaning and loving and tending the sick, feeding hungry people. With no condition of any kind.

Didn't you notice all that when YOU traveled to Haiti after the quake, or Honduras after Mitch or NOLA after Katrina or Indonesia after the tsunami? Nah, because you weren't there

It's called "being His hands and feet" and it happens all over the world every day, in places you would never go, with people you would never touch.

Anonymous said...

Keep in mind that if the defense can show that the victim's driving was either the sole proximate cause or a significant cause of the accident, it comes in.

In a "who ran the light cases," the victim's BAL should come in.

It all started with the Gensler case from Miami when the Metro Cop ran over a homeless man standing in the street. They got a conviction by not telling the jury that the homeless man was high on drugs. The 3rd DCA could not stand seeing an on duty cop go to prison simply for using her cell phone and running over a homeless man so, they opened the door to victim evidence of drugs and booze.... as it should be.

I thought we were supposed to be in the TRUTH business so, why not have the jury know what was going on with the victim?

Anonymous said...

To 7:51:

Interesting that you brought up Haiti.
Answer me this about that natural disaster that crushed 250,000 people, including the elderly, newborns and even animals who have never sinned.
If your God is omniscient (all knowing) then he knew it was going to happen. If your God is also omnipotent (all powerful) then he could have stopped it but did not. Which is he? And please don't give me that lame "God works in mysterious ways" BS and we as mere humans are too stupid to know.

Anonymous said...

to 11:54 am

(I am not 7:51 am)

Clearly you are in much pain, either emotionally or physically.

After all these years of people yelling for G-D to stay out of peoples' lives, it looks like he is finally listening.

Maybe it's time to bring G-D back into your life. It is a matter of faith and nothing more than that. If you don't feel the need to have a G-D in your life, then that is your choice.

Have a blessed weekend.

Anonymous said...

@11:54

7:51 here.

He’s omnipotent and omniscient. Sovereign is another way to put it. Sorry but He DOES work in mysterious ways and as for understanding the plan, I don’t know about stupid, but we are human and is God. No copout or BS. Just the nature of who He is versus who we are.

Does your goldfish understand why you scoop it into the air when you’re changing the water in its bowl? Does your golden retriever understand why it’s getting a vaccination shot? (Heck, does your toddler?) Could you explain it to any of them in a way that would satisfy them? You just hope the toddler and the puppy understand you love them, and trust you anyhow. (The goldfish is on his own, I guess.) It’d be kind of surprising if I suggested we ought to be able to share comprehension with the creator of the universe, wouldn’t you agree?

So no, we don’t understand suffering – either on a grand scale or a personal one. But then again, we can’t explain joy, either. Our inability to understand these things is hardly basis for a denial of God.

Next question please. Happy to answer as long as I can and as long as Rump lets us go on.

(And I’m glad we’ve moved on from just slandering Christians as folks who will only help those who’ll be preached to. Fact is, believers are the largest private source of humanitarian aid in the world. American Atheists Association, for example, not so much.)

Anonymous said...

why do you write G-D instead of God?

Anonymous said...

Stephanie Newman also lost a dui/manslaughter case where a candian businessman killed a 9 yr old girl and seriously hurt her mother as they were driving a golf cart in Weston near the Bonoventure golf course. He had a blood draw of .32. after a hard fought case, the jury found the defendant, Martin Alexander NOT GUILTY in a verdict that shocked all. Who was the Miami defense attorney ?

Anonymous said...

I understand now. When the mom's cancer goes away we thank God, but when the cancer kills her, it was His will and he works in mysterious ways. What a wonderful win-win proposition for the Big Guy Upstairs.

Anonymous said...

1:12 pm - There are many more believers than atheists; that's why there is more aid from the believers group. Now let me share another statistic: the vast majority of prison populations are "believers" too. http://www.holysmoke.org/icr-pri.htm

Anonymous said...

Back at you 7:51
As I predicted, the "he works in mysterious ways" is your only answer. (I thought you might add the "we'll understand it when we reach heaven" corollary but, to your credit, you didn't.) Too bad us mere humans can't use this "mysterious" defense when we're caught doing something wrong, like cheating on our spouse. But if that's the best justification you have for a quarter million human deaths in Haiti, I guess that's it.

So "believers" are the largest source of private charity. Well "believers" also murder abortion doctors. And "believers" also fly airplanes into buildings and strap bombs onto their bodies. And they hold "God hates fags" signs at soldiers' funerals. Atheists "not so much?" Try NOT AT ALL! Name me one death in the name of atheism, only one. Or is that God doing his mysterious thing again?
It is at least clear with whom you stand and with whom I stand.

Anonymous said...

8:10 AM from yesterday.

I know I didn't slander any Christians. Of course, since people jumped to the conclusion that someone was a racist, clearly when their post was not ... why would I not expect people to misinterpret the true message.

If I used examples, its to make a point about the 9/11 effect. A whole religion was not to blame for 9/11. Evil individuals led by psychotic people were responsible for 9/11. But using 9/11, we proceed to discriminate against anyone we think fits a stereotype.

Thus my message is that sometimes, we need to step back from things, and take a better look at it. I am a Christian and proud to be one. But what burns me, is that many people take religion to the extreme, and use it as a weapon against others. They don't even realize they are doing it. They only see the world in terms of "with us" or "against us." They then proceed to torment those they deem "against us" even though the person has not personally attacked us. And I am equal opportunity about that. Every religion is guilty of this. My point is that no religion is better than another - each is a different way of understanding the Creator.

Why is love, peace, tolerance and understanding such a hard thing to want? A Christian Community Center springs up, no problem. A Islamic one springs up, then we're ready to burn books.

Then we take jabs at the Jews, and criticize them for killing Jesus. Then we denounce Buddhists and Hindus as pagans. We then arrest Rastafarians as being evil drug users. And we ridicule agnostics and atheists.

Live... and let live. Stop trying to be the monopoly.

Anonymous said...

"So no, we don’t understand suffering – either on a grand scale or a personal one. But then again, we can’t explain joy, either. Our inability to understand these things is hardly basis for a denial of God."

Well put. Just as our "inability to understand these things" is "hardly a basis" for accepting the existence of a supreme being, either. In fact IT IS NO BASIS AT ALL. Only a mental midget would assume because there is something that you can't explain, it must be the work of some mystical being.

Smoke a little more of the opium of the masses. it won't change the outcome.

Anonymous said...

Shelly Schwartz was bounced from Branch Criminal to Civil today effective immediately.

Anonymous said...

Jesus Christ loves the Miami Heat and is sending them to the finals this year! Rumpy is wrong. Praise Jesus!

Anonymous said...

To 7:51:

"Does your golden retriever understand why it’s getting a vaccination shot? (Heck, does your toddler?)"

Why would you, as a "believer," even resort to science in caring for your dog or toddler? Wouldn't you just place your faith in God and pray (as some believers unfortunately do)? After all, science is based upon evidence and reason which you clearly reject in accepting creation over evolution. Faith, simply put, is a belief in the absence of evidence to support it.

And, by the way, still waiting for you to cite to me the horrible atrocities committed by nonbelievers of the scale that you and your fellow "believers" have committed throughout history and still continue to commit. (And no, throwing a cream pie at some fundamentalist "believer" does not count.)

Anonymous said...

Wrong!Shellt was transferred over a week ago.Since June,he has called the State on its inytoduction of Court Option on Criminal Traffic.The program is not working and he had courage to constantly voice his opinion.Court Options and State do not like to be called on their failures.
Yes,Schwartz is tough,but tough on both sides.The division assistants like him,the defense bar like him and the defendants praised him.People actually returned with drivers licenses to his court.He told defendants to go to trial especially in accident cases where they had a valid license at arraignment.No,the State did not like that.
Check with a.s.a.'s and the defense bar who appeared before him.
Unfortunately,he did not listen to those who warned him to not criticize Rundle and her henchmen.

Anonymous said...

1:05 P.M. and 11:14 A.M. from 11/18speaking

Who do you think created the marvelous creation you see around you everyday? You can't be serious about a big bang theory or the evolution of humans from monkeys. Have you ever heard the expression "don't shoot the messenger?" Well, Christians are merely the messengers of God's word from the Bible. Most non-believers pretend that we made the stuff up ourselves. Many non-believers also seem to think that there can't be a God if we are not on par with him. The theory goes, if we don't understand him, he must not exist. Christianity is based in humility and love. Humble yourself. Once you accept Christ as savior, you will begin to see the power of the Holy Spirit in your life with inexplicable events. Of course, not everything will be perfect until we get to heaven. Satan himself propagates the lie that Christians hate or have something against those who don't believe in the Most High God. Satan knows that it isn't true, but he aims to draw people away from the truth. Truth is black and white. There is only one truth. Scientists disagree on things, but some of them must by definiton be wrong, correct? The fact that there are many religions does not mean there is no truth. The confusion of truth comes from Satan. There are many religions, but only one is right.

Anonymous said...

to 1:35-- stephanie newman, the leyritz prosecuter lost the Martin Alexander case to Bob Rosenblatt and Paul Morris. Dr Ron Wright testified for the defense. The jury was convinced that the .32 blood was a result of a sample switch. Judge was O.conner.

Anonymous said...

Robert Allen Rosenblatt is an attorney who will stop at almost nothing in defense of his client. He is dogged- to almost vicious. Not a pleasant person to litigate against, and I should know. But he gets results for his clients.

Ask Abe. He will tell you.

the trialmaster said...

rump, i for once agree with you . I avoid alternate jurors because every time they say they would have voted for acquittal, the few times the trialmaster has lost, the jury came back guilty. on the other hand, when the alternate tells us they thought the defendant was guilty, the verdict is usually not guilty. talking to jurors in a criminal case is foolish. but, in a civil case it is very valuable. the trialmaster.

Anonymous said...

There is no god. God is as real as the tooth fairy. Religion is all about money and mind control and power. A brilliant idea for manipulating the masses, but total bullshit. I get the culturally religious types, but true believers are wack jobs and many are hypocritical douches.

Anonymous said...

9:36 pm - And which religion in the "right" one? Is Islam? Judaism? Scientology? Gimme a break. Just because science isn't yet able to explain how life or the universe began doesn't mean that some mysterious invisible being created it. This is what's called the "god of the gaps" - if science can't explain it, then "god" must have a hand in it. Same thinking applied when we didn't know what gravity was or thought the sun revolved around the earth. (RIP Galileo, another victim of religious persecution.) Of course, I have no explanation as to how creation began. But I can tell you that I'm pretty certain that an invisible, all-knowing, "father" didn't create it in 7 days.

Anonymous said...

Original 7:51 here.

@5:02, well, just for starters:

Khmer Rouge: 1.4 to 2.2 million deaths with 1 million documented executions.

Josef Stalin: 2.2 to 4 million deaths attributed to the engineered famine in the Ukraine alone.

Two philosophies completely and expressly inimical to any God-belief.

But agreed that in our human history, there is plenty of blood to go around on many hands, believer and otherwise.

@2:41: Strange thing is,when it comes to suffering -- of which there's also plenty -- when grandma gets better, we praise Him. When she doesn't, we still praise Him. David -- a guy who, for an example, engineered the death of his friend so he could sleep with the fellow's wife -- said "Though He slays me, yet will I praise Him."

I know it doesn't make sense - nobody's love makes sense to anyone who doesn't share it; faith is a gift and looks ridiculous to anyone who doesn't have it.

God didn't love David because of who David was; doesn't love me because of who I am. He loves because of who He is. (Amazing grace . . . that saved a wretch like me.)

@2:58: That's not much of an argument. Again, go to Honduras after Mitch or NOLA after Katrina, or Haiti after the quake. You will see direct, massive, effective aid -- food, medical, housing, etc -- being rendered by legions of believers -- at their own expense -- who expect nothing in return. The original challenger here was Christians only help people who will let the proselytize. That's just not so -- if you want to proselytize against faith, you'll need another argument,

(Want a local example: Find out how many folks in Miami have gotten houses through Habitat for Humanity. (It's nearly 400k worldwide.) And, by the way, although we are a Christian ministry, ANYONE who wants to can come and swing a hammer or wield a paintbrush. You can find a project just about any Saturday somewhere in town. You'll have a blast, and no one will preach at you.)

Anonymous said...

9:36:

Your post is a wonderful description of the view one must have when you're wearing your own sphincter muscle around your neck.

Anonymous said...

what happened yo Abe Leaser

Anonymous said...

Are not most Tea Partiers GOOD CHRISTIANS?
WWJD?
DS

Anonymous said...

HR
\ From the Herald
DS
A jury in Florida on Saturday acquitted former major league baseball player Jim Leyritz of DUI manslaughter in a 2007 crash that killed a mother of two

Anonymous said...

Word from another Good Christian, from the Herald on Sat.
DS
VATICAN CITY — Pope Benedict XVI says in a new book that condoms can be justified for male prostitutes seeking to stop the spread of HIV, a stunning comment for a church criticized for its opposition to condoms and for a pontiff who has blamed them for making the AIDS crisis worse.

Read more: http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/11/20/1935390/pope-says-condoms-ok-for-male.html#ixzz15qsH6kDC

Anonymous said...

From http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/broward/fort-lauderdale/sfl-leyrtiz-acquitted-in-fatal-dui-20101121,0,7368259.story

A jury in Florida on Saturday acquitted former major league baseball player Jim Leyritz of DUI manslaughter in a 2007 crash that killed a mother of two.

However, Leyritz was convicted on a misdemeanor charge of driving under the influence, which carries a maximum sentence of six months in jail. Leyritz had faced up to 15 years in prison if convicted on the manslaughter charge.

Sentencing was set for Nov. 29.

All in a days work? said...

Here is the YouTube video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUL98hSWBVw

Anonymous said...

Stalin's and the Khmer Rouge's atrocities were committed in pursuit of a political system (communism). Much like North Korea uses its Juche system for total control. Certainly you know that virtually all totalitarian regimes abolish religion because it competes with the indoctrination of the masses and its elimination is politically expedient, not because their leaders all of a sudden become free thinking and have purged their minds of religious pollution. Look at Hitler's 6 million deaths in pursuit of fascism. They are not typically attributed to Catholicsm even though he arguably was a Catholic (or a self-loathing Jew)and even though these deaths clearly occurred with the complicity of the Catholic church (Pope Pius then and Pope Benedict then and now). According to your logic, the current deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan are then attributable to religion because both Bush and Obama are Christian? Of course that's ridiculous.

Sorry original 7:51. FAIL FAIL FAIL. My original request was to name atrocities in the name of Atheism, (you know, like someone shouting out Richard Dawkins instead of Allah Akbar as they fly a plane into a building). Not autocratic rulers who prohibit religion along with all other competing thoughts and beliefs, religious or otherwise, in pursuit of maniacal control of their country.

To DS:

That's great news about the Pope. Remove homophobe from his list of accomplishments. Now he's merely a former Nazi and current protector of pedophiles.

Anonymous said...

Let's go Heat! Tonight another W!

Anonymous said...

I will never understand why someone who believes in an all powerful and all knowing G-d would think that He needs any of us to acknowledge His existence or pray to Him in a particular way.

I believe in G-d. I don't believe He cares whether we believe in Him, what religion we follow or whether or not we spend any time (let alone hours a day) praying to Him. He doesn't need our validation and will judge us on our actions, not our words. I have far more respect for those who strive to better the world irrespective of their beliefs (or lack thereof) than those who simply pray or attend services but live out their lives selfishly.

BTDT

abe laeser said...

Somebody just interested, or might you need co-counsel on a difficult case?

Anonymous said...

7:51 here
@5:19
You made me laugh out loud at the notion of atheist insurgents screaming "Richard Dawkins!!!" as they run toward a group of theology students, evil intent in their hearts, driven by the vision of NO virgins awaiting them in NO paradise.
But my point stands: It' not just that Pol Pot or Uncle Joe were personally atheists. Each one's political system was intensely, expressly atheistic and their regimes virulently, intentionally targeted believers -- not as byproduct or consequence, but as a cornerstone of their politics/strategy. Certainly the goal included eliminating one belief system and inculcating -- by force if need be -- another.
Those deaths were attributable to that belief set.
And understand, I hardly think I'll convince you of anything on this topic in this forum. I wasn't speaking metaphorically when I said I understand faith as a gift. Read Luther and Calvin and Francis Schaeffer and you'll see what I'm talking about -- the notion (simplified here) that the sovereignty of God extends to when/where that gift is given.
So it makes no sense for any believer to be proud of the status or take credit for it, or to blame anyone who's not. (Saved by grace (a gift of God) not works (i.e. anything I did/could do) so no one can boast.)
Put it this way, I know Richard Dawkins is more exorcised about believers than any believer OUGHT to be about him. I've read Dawkins a lot (I was a bio student when "The Selfish Gene" crystallized and transformed how all of us thought about the process of evolution.) and the trouble is much of what he does these days amounts to construction and destruction of elaborate straw men.

(cont. . . . )

Anonymous said...

7:51

@5:19 (cont. . . .)

And all this on the forum (thanks Rump for letting us go on) started with a straw man: "Christians are bad because they only help those who will be preached to." I know for a fact that's not so, and so do folks -- even non-believers -- who have ever been where the work is being done, whether that's San Pedro Sula or Perrine.

So we're not having an argument. I'm not here to convince you of anything or make you a believer -- not something a man can do, anyway. There's no FAIL for me. Really just want to knock down that straw man, and happy to answer questions if asked.

Rumpole said...

I will let this go on as long as you want, although to paraphrase from my college days, you guys should go get a room or exchange emails.

What I was concerned about was drawing those fire and brimstone people who have their own thriving on line community. They tend to believe that their only goal in life is to convert people to their way of thinking and they also tend to spread the word of available blogs that will allow them to preach and then I have a 150 comments a day I have to delete and it becomes a big pain to run this machine. And trust me- I speak from experience on this issue.

But no worries. Have at it.

Anonymous said...

1:05 P.M. and 11:14 A.M. from 11/18 speaking

7:51 is a great Christian who has hit the nail on the head.
You know, God doesn't need us to validate him, but he wants us to know him personally because of his great love for us. The one true God is Yahweh. HE became the God of the Gentiles through Jesus Christ, the Savior. I don't understand why atheists work so hard to convince people of a negative, that God does not exist. These efforts prove that they know God actually exists, but they have decided to hate his love and goodness. 7:24 A.M., Satan is speaking through you. The bible predicted you when it told us that in the last days, there would be many scoffers. Choose this day who you will serve, but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.

Anonymous said...

@7:51

At Rumpole's suggestion I'm going to throw in the towel. He's right, there are plenty of blogs devoted to religious "discussion." And you're also right in that you will never convince me(you do recognize that you have the burden of proof in that you are the one that claims God exists). And sadly I will never convince you either. Too much religious indoctrination growing up (after all you were not born a Christian, you are one because your parents were and they raised you that way. If you were born in Afghanistan you would be a Muslim).

You almost had me though when you mentioned swinging a hammer for Habitat for Humanity. I considerd it. Until I went to their website and read their mission statement:

"We witness to the Word of God and the love of Jesus Christ for all persons through our words and actions."

"We follow Biblical teachings in our attitudes and actions."

What is the "Word of God" or the "Biblical teachings" you follow in, for example, homosexuality? Here's a sample (by no means all inclusive):

According to the Bible, homosexuals:
are abominable to God (Lev. 18:22), are worthy of death for their vile sex practices (Lev. 20:13; Rom. 1:32), are called dogs as filthy, impudent & libidinous (Deut. 23:17,18; Mat. 7:6;Phil. 3:2),liars & murderers (Jn. 8:44), filthy & lawless (2 Pet. 2:7,8), natural brute beasts (2 Pet. 2:12), likened unto dogs eating their own vomit, sows wallowing in their own feces (2 Pet. 2:22) and they have no hope of Heaven (Rev. 22:15).

Sorry dude, just not into all that hate.

Anonymous said...

7:51 here

@8:56

Fair enough. Last word from me, too.

Thing one: I wasn't born a Christian. I became a believer at age 35. So not really an indoctrination thing at all. Just a grace thing.

Thing two: Grace covers everything. Hate/division is not part of the equation at all. Ask the gay folks who work for me (and get domestic partner health benefits and maternity leave), ask the unwed moms who sing in our choir at church, ask the muslim family who just moved into their Habitat house my church and three others did in a "blitz build."

Being a Christian means I have very little interest in anyone else's shortcomings. I'm too aware of how enormous are my own sins and failings; I'm too grateful for my own salvation and i know I didn't/couldn't save myself. And hate? Not an option. I'm commanded to love.

I get that you've probably dealt with some Christian who have been asshats. Or you've heard they have. I'm sorry for that. But that's not who HE is or what the believing is about.

Anonymous said...

@Sunday, November 21, 2010 8:46:00 PM--

Questions-- do you not believe several Biblical Verses conflict with Modern Life or Today's lifestyle?

Over some years, I've seen reports or lists of things that the Bible
(e.g.King James) has specifically prohibited, but for the large part
have been ignored by us who live in more modern times. Besides, thou
shall not eat shrimp or pork, there have been other biblical injunctions that are considered "passe".

Other than the ten commandments which we break daily, what are the biblical injunctions that we ignore daily? These could range from divorce to very silly such as not eating shrimp.

Anonymous said...

RE: "We follow Biblical teachings in our attitudes and actions."

IMHO the problem with that- in this day and age it is impossible to live everyday life according to the Bible.

Anonymous said...

"7:24 A.M., Satan is speaking through you. The bible predicted you when it told us that in the last days, there would be many scoffers. Choose this day who you will serve, but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord."

7:24am here. Satan is speaking through me? Lol. For real, that line made me laugh out loud. It made me think of that hilarious scenes from the Exorcist where the demon girl tells the priest that his mother sucks cocks in hell. Thank you. So is this the end of days? If so, please let me know so I can stop busting my ass as a lawyer and blow my savings on strong herb and strippers. Sorry, but I will choose to serve neither your god nor your devil because I don't believe in either one. The tooth fairy is cool though; she once left me five bucks for a single tooth. That being said, I donate to charities (avoiding the religious ones of course), I recycle religiously (pun intended), and I generally do a pretty good job of not being an asshole in everyday life. If you say I'm damned then I'm damned. I'm really not sweating it too much. And if I do end up in hell, at least I know that blow jobs are still available.