UPDATE: We received this comment:
Hey Rumpole - Thanks for painting me as a racist - I am sure that ths was inadvertant. Please understand that a) I am not a racist, I dislike everyone equally; b) my comment would've been the same had I received what I consider to be an improper list-serve post; c) my point, to be clear, is that the list-serve should be used by members for FACDL-related topics ONLY; and d) I have always considered list-serve posts to be private communications between FACDL members and not public items; accordingly I take execption to your having posted my private response without my permission. In this case, as I am confident that we now understand one another, I expect mutual consideration in the future.
Rumpole says: There is some humor in Mr. Haber's comment, but we take his complaint very very seriously. Not only do we think that we did not paint Mr. Haber as a racist, we think our comment showed that there was a very legitimate side to his comment. Namely that the listserv should be used for legal issues and that any expression of religious beliefs -no matter how well intentioned- would open the flood gates for preaching.
If it was not clear- let us be very very clear- Mr. Haber's comment was proper, well thought out, well meaning, and in our opinion not directed in a hateful way at anyone or any religion. He was very clear that his comment was meant for all kinds of off topic comments, from the availability of a car for sale, to personal comments. He is not a racist. He does not have that reputation. From our admittedly limited knowledge of him personally, he is a very fine attorney fully committed to the constitution and the ideals of our country.
Item one: Congrats to Arnie Trevilla who won a DUI trial before Judge Miranda yesterday. But just to show you that his heart is in the right place, here is his email when the jury went out, and kudos to his praise of the judge BEFORE the verdict:
7:04 PM (16 hours ago) |
Jury just went out on my dui. Miranda gives a great trial!!!!!!!! Love her...
And here is his email 78 minutes later later:
8:22 PM (15 hours ago) |
Ng!!!
Item Two: Earlier in the day Khurrum Wahid sent out this email:
On Tuesday, November 16, 2010, Khurrum Wahid wrote:
To all my brothers and sisters in the bar, today is Eid ul adha.
Muslim holiday marking the end of the pilgrimage to Mecca called Hajj which all Muslims must to once in their lifetime.
Just by way of FYI, Hajj itself is purported to mark the event where God told Abraham to sacrifice his child for God and God replaced the child with a goat. This pillar of Islam shows the common link between Christians Jews Muslims and other faiths that trace their origins to Abraham.
Say Eid Mubarak to your friends and whether Muslim or not because we have more in common than not on this planet.
And the predictable contretemps erupted including this email from Michael Haber:
Please, pretty please, w/ powdered sugar & rasberry sauce on top, STOP USING FACDL's Google Group for posting non-law related issues. If u wanna sell your used furniture, lease office space, pat someone on the back (proverbially), celebrate a holiday (of any nature), share an anticdote or whatever, please use your personal e-mail and spare the rest of us your inconsiderate (& inappropriate) thoughts, comments or observations (as this would be but for my having been exposed to happy Muslim day emails on FACDL).
Rumpole says: Mr. Wahid's email conveyed wonderful sentiments and certainly the world would be a better place if we all had his wonderful view of life and religion.
Eid Mubarak....
BUT...one could speculate that such an email would open up the floodgates to those who would wish to prosthelytize their own religious views.
Item Three: Sabrina Puglisi - Commissar of the Miami Chapter of the FACDL had this startling announcement about the upcoming FACDL: Board meeting:
Just wanted to update yesterday's announcement. Chief Judge Federico Moreno
has accepted our invitation to attend. He will stay for the first 15
minutes and answer questions.
has accepted our invitation to attend. He will stay for the first 15
minutes and answer questions.
Rumpole says: There will be a "meet and greet" afterwards and the Judge will pose for pictures and sign autographs suitable for forging his signature on orders, which is becoming generally accepted in the South Florida legal community.
So there's your FACDL update. Lets remember, we're all on the same side (cashing cheques) so lets try and get along.
Eid Mubarak
57 comments:
Thought forging signatures was more common north of the border in Broward than here in Dade.
As much as it pains me to admit it, unfortunately Broward is considered part of "South Florida".
Haber was thrown on his head as a child, obviously..
The Lord Jesus Christ is the only way to salvation. A true Christian loves his or her neighbor, but does not adopt any of his neighbor's false views about a false God who never existed. Lately the phrase "let's all get along" has been code language for let's compromise our beliefs for the false views of Islam, Buddhism, christain science, and all kinds of other blasphemies.
I saw Saul shred those mutherfuckers in Broward this week. He's an arrogant musclehead but he knows how to try a case.
Hey Rumpole - Thanks for painting me as a racist - I am sure that ths was inadvertant. Please understand that a) I am not a racist, I dislike everyone equally; b) my comment would've been the same had I received what I consider to be an improper list-serve post; c) my point, to be clear, is that the list-serve should be used by members for FACDL-related topics ONLY; and d) I have always considered list-serve posts to be private communications between FACDL members and not public items; accordingly I take execption to your having posted my private response without my permission. In this case, as I am confident that we now understand one another, I expect mutual consideration in the future.
Rumpole, Are you on a mental vacation?
I thought that you screened the stuff on your Blog. Why do I need to read this religious material here, too ?
"Let's all get along" is actually code for "Love your neighbor as yourself". Now which religion speaks out against that concept?
Dear 1:05pm
Jesus's Dad was the God of the Jews or as the Hebrews say The God of Abraham ( Ibraham for Muslims)< Allah is the same God only using an arabmaic name, Since Mohammid taught that the God of Ibraham and the God of Jesus are in fact the Same One God, Who also is the God of Islam. Legend says that Mohammed himself is a decenddent of A/Ibraham and Hogar's son Ismaiel. So whether is Addonoi, Jesus's Dad , or Allah its all the same One God.
So get over it and praise the lord and treat others as you would like to be treated
D. Sisselman
Haber rocks-- Judge Haber, Senator Haber?....a clear and insightful pragmatist.
Mayor Haber... sounds like the good old days
HR
below Story should be an example
DS
Fla. Chief Justice: Foreclosures Must Be Open
TALLAHASSEE, Fla. -- Florida Supreme Court Chief Justice Charles Canady issued a memorandum Wednesday directing chief judges of the state's trial courts to make sure foreclosure proceedings are open to the public....
Canady issued his directive on open proceedings in response to complaints from the American Civil Liberties Union as well as media and open-government organizations. They had cited instances of citizens being told by court officials that such proceedings are closed to the public.
Chief judges must ensure practices in their circuits "are entirely consistent with the constitutional, statutory, procedural rule, and case law requirements of this state regarding the presumption that state court proceedings are open to the public," Canady wrote.
https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=19039943&postID=8384695959941898561
I guess the suicide bomber who blew up himself and three US soldiers yesterday in Afghanistan did not get what he wanted for Eid Mubarak. Or perhaps maybe he did/will when he enters heaven and gets his 40 to 70 some virgins. Eid Mubarak everyone.
This blog is causing problems at the FACDL list/serve. It seems that no matter what we say politely to Mr Rumpole he keeps posting our private emails on this fucking blog.
If one of the prosecutors forwarded private emails on a prosecutor list/serve, they would launch an investigation.
Rump, please let us talk to each other without fear that you will blab it on the blog.
Michael needs to chill out about the FACDL listserv. If you are selling something or have space available, it's no big deal. Those types of emails could benefit another person in the FACDL.
He is right, however, on the religious stuff. If you want to share your religious beliefs, post them on your facebook page and keep it out of my inbox.
Which reminds me of my favorite religious passage,
"And the robed one said, he who enter this courtroom shall not leave but under the guidance and consent of my Bailiff." Slom 3:16
Oh and p.s.- Dennis Murphy is the best judge in the building. He just is.
Mama Mia! Preaching in the comments!?! Two things: where did the third DCA roundup go and let's go heat!
I loved Haber's email. It was funny and true.
Can I get the email address for the FACDL so every time a private loses to a county ASA it is properly reported.
To 1:05,
You listed several religions, but not Judaism. Does your comment apply to Jews as well?
Rumpy is wrong about the Heat! They will be championship contenders by January! They shut Nash down tonight!
I come to respect all religious views. Everyone is simply aiming for the same thing (salvation) through different means, languages, and practices.
- Jacquline Roberts
It's kind of sad when you have to pat yourself on the back by sending emails to the criminal defense bar that you've won.... (ready???).... a DUI TRIAL!! Wow. What a stunning victory.
Arnie was just mesmerized by Her Milfness.
Dear Mr. 7: 17 pm,
When is the last time you even did a closing argument before a jury?
Truth be told, most lawyers never go to trial and the one's who do risk much to save a client.
Yes, even good lawyers can't win every trial but, they do it and don't sit around bitching that someone posted that they had a good trial with a certian judge.
I have to think that the comment was not appropriate on the FACDL listserv for the same reasons we have separation of church and state. It leads to bickering, intolerance and oppression.
I think Rumpole did not paint Haber as a racist, but some of the readers have, and he pointed to Rumpole because reposting the comment was a "but for" cause, although not the actual culpable act.
All religions in theory, deem themselves to be the one true religion, and the others, the fakes. Close but not quite at the end of the day. It is this aspect of religion that has led to bloodshed and wars.
And to take a gratuitous jab at the Tea Party, maybe there is no separation of church and state, because those words never actually appear in the Establishment Clause. If legally Christianity became the official religion, and the law had to respect no other, the Religious Right would be surely happy. This country would be a better place right? No abortions, no sex outside of marriage, heck let's do abstinence while we're at it.
I love God, and consider myself religious. But I think I should keep my views to myself, and your views to yourself. If there is an appropriate time to share, that's fine too, as there's nothing wrong with awareness.
We spend so much time talking about "no negotiation," and "no compromise," or "stop being wishy washy" and "stand up for what's right." Some say, "All of this can't we all just get along?" talk is what's destroying this country. To me those are code words for intolerance. Some of the greatest atrocities have been committed under the name of religion. That goes for EVERY religion, even though probably the first image that springs to your mind are Muslims.
When slave masters in the New World were splitting the backs of slaves open with cat-o-nine tails, crucifying them, hanging them from trees, boiling them, lopping off body parts, raping them, burning them, driving spikes through their necks, etc. they held Bibles near and dear to them, and preached that the Bible permitted slaves, and that Jesus told them to be good slaves, and do what they were told.
Everyone needs to get off their high horse, and do something the world could do better with. Get along, instead of jockeying for dominance.
All of your posts are belong to us.
Expectation of privacy = zero.
Religion is like a penis. It is fine that you have one. You can even be proud of it. But please do not whip it out and flail it around in public. And whatever you do, do not try and ram it down someone's throat.
Keep all religion off the listserv.
George Pallas
HABER SI. Fidel, shumie, NO!
HABER AMIGO! Miami con tiego.
Haber
You thought the list serve was a private communication between FACDL members? Ouch. Maybe you learned a lesson...And lets be real here. The Muslim thing irked you. After 911, that is perfectly OK. Lets not pretend otherwise...
Mr. Wahid is very sharp and prob knew his comment would provoke negative sentiment. It's healthy discourse.
I would have to imagine if the comment was about a similar Christian or Jewish there would have been nary a peep. If you don't like a comment on the listserve, just hit the delete button.
"Religion is like a penis."
Gotta love it!
(the quote... well, religion too. and yeah, I guess the penis)
It's official, Miguel de La Oh!!!!!
first candidate filed for Judicial election 2010. And they're off and running.............
Leyritz Acquitted!
Anyone who knows Haber knows that he's a straight shooter who doesn't harbor ill will toward any particular group.
I don't read Rump's comment the way he does and can't imagine why anyone would think Haber's post was in any way racist. I hope Haber is being overly sensitive, but in this day and age of political correctness can certainly understand the concern.
Hang in there Mike.
BTDT
Any truth to the rumor that the judge in the Leyritz DUI manslaughter case granted a 2nd JOA and that the only charge going to the jury is misdemeanor DUI?
1:05 speaking
Jesus gave something called the "great Commission" telling his disciples to go into all the world and preach the Gospel. Do not hold the acts of Jesus' followers against Jesus himself. In fact, the reason we need Jesus is because we're all sinners. This is the true message of the Gospel. Christians don't try to force Jesus down anybody's throat; we simply ask people nicely if they would agree to save their own souls by acknowledging Him as Savior. It's for the other people's good and not for ours. As to Jews, we love them. They knew God before he was introduced to the rest of the world. Yahweh is our God. God told us in the bible that the muslims (descendants of Ishmael) would be "wild men" throughout their lives. Yes, they did descend from Abraham also, but they were not given the covenant that Isaac received. Get into the bible and you'll learn all this stuff.
Haber OUI- SHUMIE AND JEAN BERTRAND ARISTRIDE NO.
HABER DA
Shumie and Breshnev NYET!!!
LEYRITZ has not been acquitted. One felony count was JOA'd. One remains. Great Job Bogie
HABER YA
Shumie and Himmler NEIN !!!!!
HR
More interesting , The Miami Commission followed the recomendation of the DDA and has outlawed begging and panhandling downtown and specificly around the Areana and Arsht Center. Arrests per the police went up 300% . Is it time for ANOTHER Federal Suit like Potinger?
DS
To 1:05
"Christians don't force Jesus down anyone's throat." Are you kidding me? Have you ever heard of the Inquisition? Or, closer to home, the killing of the Cuban indian Hatuey (and all other indians on the island) by the Spanish colonists because they refused to accept your savior. Or modern day christian missionaries who bring aid to third world countries ONLY if you listen to their proselytizing bullshit.
"As to Jews we love them." Really? Well, the present Pope Benedict is a former Nazi. And last month the Vatican called for an end to Israel's "occupation" of Arab land. And since Jews (as well as all your Muslim and atheist "friends")are non-believers they will, according to your Bible, will suffer eternally in damnation, in other words burn in hell.. Not much love there.
Maybe you should "get into the Bible" and you will see that it promotes hate and persecution against women, homosexuals and those who worship other gods or no god at all.
Is there a cafeteria in the new federal courthouse!
HABER OY!
Shumie goy.
BANSAI HABER!
Shumie gaijin. がいこくじん
8:10 AM here.
Speaking to 1:05.
"The Lord Jesus Christ is the only way to salvation."
I stand by my point that religions seek dominance. As per the Highlander fiction movies/series, there can be only one.
The Crusades were fought mainly by Catholic Christian forces against Muslims, and other campaigns were also fought against pagans, Jews, Russian and Greek Orthodox Christians and political enemies of the various popes.
"God told us in the bible that the muslims (descendants of Ishmael) would be 'wild men' throughout their lives. Yes, they did descend from Abraham also, but they were not given the covenant that Isaac received."
This amplifies my points a thousand fold. You want to do nothing but wage hate against those you dislike. If you're going to use that scripture, be precise about it. What you really meant to say is that the Ishmaelites were the Arabs. Hence the racism now commences, because you're discriminating specifically against an ethnic people under Biblical sanction. Then you lump all Arabs together as being Muslims which is not technically correct either.
Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Even Judaism doesn't necessarily consider Ishmael as necessarily being the Arabs. Muslims do, but then that would mean you actually accept something from "blasphemers" as being religious truth.
It is this same thinking that led slavers to believe Africans should be slaves because of the "Curse of Ham/Canaan" - again more racism. Yet Jewish scholars do not necessarily agree with the Christian interpretation on this subject.
Keep on preaching your hate... like the antisemitic Mel Gibson (Passion of Christ) said, "If you get raped by a pack of (N-word), its your fault."
6:29 muslim
i admit that in the distant past , well before ant of us were born, our religions committed brutal crimes against non belivers. the thing is, muslims bring it today.
1:05 speaking
You all continue to avoid the subject of Jesus' loving character to focus on Christians and their actions. Don't judge my actions or my words, judge Jesus instead. Are you calling Jesus (the son of God) and God racist. Again, my point is that it's not about what the followers have done because we are all sinners. The problem with man is that he thinks it's all about him and not about the Creator who made him. Catholics are not true Christians. The Catholic church has its own man-made rules which do not comport with Biblical teaching. In reality, you hate the bible because you hate anything that controls your behavior. God would not be a just God if everyone no matter how evil went to heaven. And yes, hell is the only alternative. One day soon everyone will know the truth. At that time, you will probably think back to your blasphemous comments on this blog and regret your words against a just and loving God. Unfortunately, not everyone will end up in heaven. I don't preach against people or races or genders, I preach against false beliefs. No matter what I say, you all seem to be unable to separate the two? Is that a problem with your logic or a problem with your heart?
Please stop. See this is why so many people don't want religion discussed on the listserv.
And if you think about it, what would the good Lord want you to be doing- spending your time arguing on some stupid blog, or going out and helping someone? So stop fighting for your religion here- it affects no one- and go out and donate an hour or two to a homeless shelter or helping a child to read. I promise you, that will do more to advance your particular religion than anything you say here.
Peace out.
Rumpy hate to bring the subject back but here's a question I gotta ask to 1:05/11:14-- those of us who have never the read the Bible or gone to church- in your opinion-- are we damned to Hell? Does G-D not love us?
On second thought Rumpy- forget the question I asked to 1:05/11:14 in regards to people who don't go to church or read the Bible. Don't bother to post it please- just read your comment again and didn't realize you wanted the discussion to end.
Nevermind- you just posted my comment. Thanks Rumpy.
The best view I have ever seen of the creator was expressed by a Rabbi in the book "When Bad Things Happen to Good People". The Rabbi who wrote it had lost his young daughter to cancer I believe. He expressed the view of a creator who is kind and loving but not all powerful. I believe one phrase I remember is something to the effect of "there are things of the lord, and things of nature, and things of man, and none have power over the other." This explains why the creator created a universe where little children die and in which tragedies happen. The creator set matters in motion and is in some ways powerless to prevent events.
So to answer your question, I believe in a loving and kind creator. One who does not condemn you- his/her most wonderful creation- to an eternity of hell for missing a week in church. Those who follow an organized religion find comfort in following the rules. But I believe the rules- Jewish, Muslim, or Christian, exist to help you find your relationship with the creator. This is what is paramount. Should you choose say to be a muslim, then finding your relationship with Allah requires you to pray five times a day. But in my view, that does not mean Allah condemns all who don't to hell. In my view, Allah would be just as happy if you lived a good and peaceful life in which you brought happiness to others as a Buddhist, rather than pray five times a day and explode a suicide bomb.
But this is my view and what do I know? I thought the Dolphins had a chance last night.
1:46 again: Nicely said my friend. Thank you.
If it makes you feel better I thought the Fins would win too.
I always hated the phrase "tolerance". Thought that was maybe the right standard in 1965; but in today's society is merely tolerating each other the best we could do?
My firm has just about every religion, race, and sexual orientation you can think of working in a pressure cooker, yet our diffrences make us stronger. I thought our goal as a society should be embracing our diffrences so we could become wiser and evolve.
After reading everything on this blog the last couple of days, I now think merely tolerating each other is a lofty goal.
8:10 AM here.
I never have had a problem with Jesus. I haven't avoided anything.
Unlike you, I love everyone, just as Jesus would. I don't selectively love and hate people because of bloodlines that are inaccurate approximations who God blessed and cursed in the Old Testament.
You think I demean Christianity. You judge me, but only God can do that. I am tired of self-righteous people who think they know all of the answers, when they fail to remember their own human frailty.
I'm not here to argue either. One day, I hope that something said will click and make sense, that as Rump points out, many of the so-called righteous people spend too much of their lives hurting people and very little time helping people. I am misguided in thinking anything I say, might make sense, and will cause a cease and desist of so much hate.
This is my last post. That is all.
Important point left out of this religious debate: Atheist babes are hot!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I92vQ0Nj4LA&feature=related
Religion is a very personal thing and should be kept that way unless invited... but that invitation shouldn't be seen as an opportunity to proselytise or insult someone's beliefs.
G-d is everywhere-- is my belief. . I feel I don't need to pray in church or feel the need to go to church to be close to G-d....not that there is anything wrong with those who do go to feel close to him.
Ultimately religion is just a base set of laws to live by and to give the general populace something to believe in, that there is something after this life. In my opinion it is for each right thinking to decide for themselves whether religion is useful or not. I think it is outdated is responsible for the worst wars the as ever seen including the current squabbles between Christian and Islam. When the followers of the dominant religions can finally work out that they are all following the same "G-d" then perhaps the blood shed will stop.
Religion IMHO is far more destructive than an atomic bomb, it destroys and stagnates life far more deeper than anything a bomb could physically do.
Perhaps people should look inward to find the small part of G-d that dwells within them.
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