UPDATE: If you follow us on X @justicebuilding we have re-tweeted the reporting of a very competent and independent journalist who was with Israeli troops entering towns attacked by Hamas. While he saw uncontroverted evidence of war atrocities, there was no evidence of babies being be-headed. That DOES NOT lessen the outrage over the war crimes and atrocities, including a Holocaust survivor being pulled from a wheelchair and kidnapped, and whole families simply and senselessly and horrifically slaughtered by Hamas terrorists.
But we have sparked outrage of a formerly unknown depth of anger for committing the blogging atrocity of criticizing Israel for its response. Lincoln was criticized for the conduct of the Civil War; Roosevelt for the conduct of WWII; Johnson forced from office for the US conduct in Vietnam and Bush criticized for the conduct of the war in Iraq after the 9/11 attacks, and all of those critics suffered less condemnation than anyone who dares speak up for those who currently have no voice- the nearly one million Palestinian children trapped in Gaza. So be it. OUR VOICE WILL NOT BE SILENCED. We will never stop speaking out against wrongs and standing up for the oppressed until the last breath has left our body. That means talking about the atrocities of Hamas AND the aftereffects of Israeli missiles and bombs. Deal with it.
From the NY Times Thomas Friedman today: This is well said and the entire OP ED is an intelligent analysis of what is occurring- but since Friedman has had the temerity to point out flaws in what Israel is doing, can calls for his being canceled be far behind? Cancel Rumpole/ Cancel Friedman. No criticism of a country killing children will be allowed!!
I believe one reason Hamas not only launched this assault now — but also seemingly ordered it to be as murderous as possible — was to trigger an Israeli overreaction, like an invasion of the Gaza Strip, that would lead to massive Palestinian civilian casualties and in that way force Saudi Arabia to back away from the U.S.-brokered deal now in discussion to promote normalization between Riyadh and the Jewish state. As well as to force the United Arab Emirates, Bahrain and Morocco, which were part of the Abraham Accords produced by the Trump administration, to take a step back from Israel.
As details emerge of the horrors of the attacks by Hamas on innocent men, women, and most vile- children, Israelis are understandably filled with a bloodlust to seek both revenge on the killers who wrought such nearly unimaginable crimes upon them, and the need to ensure that - once again- Jews around the world say "Never Again".
But what happens when the inhumanity of the criminals strips the humanity from the victims? When the victims respond and indifferently kill innocent men, women, and children who live among the criminals- is the ultimate crime the victims ceding their humanity in the desire for revenge?
When the Israeli Prime Minister and Defense Minister repeatedly state that those who live in Gaza- a strip of land about the size of Washington DC with twice as many inhabitants- should leave now- knowing full well both Israel and Egypt have closed the borders, trapping over two million people- we cannot help but be reminded of the sign that hung above the Auschwitz concentration camp: Arbeit Macht Frei: Work Sets You Free.
The sign was the ultimate inhumanity, A sick, inside joke among the SS and Third Reich killing ,machine, mocking the victims, and giving them false hope as they were stripped and marched off to gas chambers.
Is there not an equivalent inhumanity when the leaders of Israel's armed forces tell innocent people to leave a place they cannot leave, just before being bombed? Hamas has turned the leaders of Israel's blood cold- and revenge- not just safety- is being sought. It is the Allies fire-bombing of the German city of Dresden at the end of World War II all over again. The indiscriminate killing of civilians because your army killed our people.
There are two haunting videos we have seen of fathers, carrying their infant daughters as they must have done hundreds of times- the child's head nestled on their shoulder- seemingly asleep- but in fact dead from Israeli missile strikes. The fathers are screaming in agony; their child dead. Does it matter if the father is a Jew or an Arab? To us, having not lost our humanity- he is a father holding his dead infant daughter, and it matters not which deity he worships. He is a human being suffering the ultimate loss. There is a video of one of these scenes at the end of this post.
In the face of the inhumanity of the attacks on Israelis- and make no mistake- these were attacks on people for being Jewish- Israel is losing (or has lost) its humanity, when it responds in kind. Cannot Israel see that when it destroys a home and kills an innocent baby girl that the criminal has turned them -baited them more appropriately- into committing criminal acts as well?
It seems insignificant to note that in Florida and the United States, the law requires acts of self defense to be proportional to the danger faced. The fire bombing of Dresden was not a proportional response; the missile strikes and bombing of Gaza is not a proportional response knowing full well most of the population had nothing to do with Hamas's attack and are trapped by Israel and Egypt. They cannot flee- the words of Israel's Prime Minister and Defense Minister are meant to mock their helplessness and suffering-just as the sign over Auschwitz did.
Violence Begets Violence- and there is no end in sight. But the light of humanity in Israel is flickering weakly. It is about to be snuffed out. And then what?
WARNING The Video is very disturbing. Please proceed cautiously.
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Your bias is really getting disgusting. Spewing any sort of equivalency between Israel and Hamas, or ISRAEL and the NAZIS is garbage, you know it, and I can only guess that Jewish lawyers must’ve wiped the floor with you in court so many times that you are butthurt about it, so this is the only way you can get them back, by writing falsehoods.
ReplyDeleteYes, all dead babies are tragedies. But the “Palestinian” man holding his dead baby, because his elected government chose to fire rockets from the roof of his apartment, and used his people as human shields, that blood is on the hands of HAMAS.
Where is the video of the Israeli father cradling his dead baby? Oh, that’s right there isn’t one. Because first of all, that father was murdered along with his wife, other children, and babies. Secondly, his baby’s head was sawed off and his body was burned. More blood on the hands of HAMAS.
ALL of this blood is on the hands of Hamas. They brutalize their own people, and want to annihilate the Jews. It is not ISRAEL’S responsibility to save the people of “Palestine” from their leaders. In fact, ISRAEL already provides hundreds of thousands of dollars of humanitarian aid to Gaza on a regular basis. Much of which is stolen by their leaders to buy weapons, and build palaces while their own people starve.
Your one good point is about the border. Specifically Gaza’s border with Egypt. Nothing is stopping Egypt from helping their Muslim brothers. Where is the international outrage against Egypt for their blockade of Gaza??? It’s nonexistent, because the Muslim world doesn’t actually give two shits about the “Palestinians”. They don’t care about them and they don’t WANT them. That’s why their brothers in Egypt, Jordan, Syria, etc. did NOT welcome them into their countries, but caged them in refugee camps (but Gaza is the “open air prison” right?). Muslims do not care about the blood of Muslims. Nobody on earth kills more Muslims than other Muslims.
No, the Muslim and non-Muslim world only care when it’s about the JEWS. Because, like you keep demonstrating, Jew hate remains alive and well.
Is a video of dead Israeli children going to make you feel better? Can you not see that this is just a race to who can point out more atrocities that the other side has committed? That such feelings have caused this tragedy? You differentiate between the Palestinian father and want to see videos of Israeli parents mourning. And I say my heart breaks for both of those parents whose children have been needlessly murdered.And I understand you will respond that Hamas started it and the Palestinians have to suffer for the sins of Hamas. But that is like telling me I have to suffer for the sins of Trump- and I am free to leave the US. Since 2005 or so Gaza residents are not free to leave. A child born into Gaza is stuck in Gaza so I cannot look at the dead child and blame her father or Hamas. All I can and will do is mourn the loss of a totally innocent life. But wrap yourself in your indignation over what Hamas has done. Just use a prayer shawl because violence begets violence and your indignation and the indignation of others in power in Israel is going to do one thing - create more loss of life. Unless, as I said, you are willing to support Israel committing genocide and wiping a people from the face of the earth. And then what have you and Israel become?
ReplyDeleteTerrible video.
ReplyDeleteAlso terrible analysis. Why are the uninformed usually the loudest? These Nazi analogies are purposefully incendiary. But you are missing the mark with them. Just like your (mis)appropriation of Rumpole, a beloved and nuanced literary character you do not embody, but simply present a fun-house mirror reflection of. If you are going to continue this -- and do it callously in the same post as your fantasy football ruminations -- you are going to lose readers who are here for what this blog is supposed to be about.
As tragic as that video was, there is a difference between intentionally setting off to lynch and kill civilians as the target and purpose of your operation with the goal for it to be as many as possible, and to respond with a bombing campaign to defend against an enemy who launched that attack and was still poised for more such attacks and was still in your territory.
Why the rush to judgment that Israel is targeting civilians. I have not seen that evidence. They should not do so. The NYTimes daily today discussed Hamas's storing of munitions in hospitals. Those aren't hospitals anymore, they are weapons depots where patients are also treated. The blame if that becomes a target is clear.
There must still be proportionality, but where is the evidence that Israel is engaged in anything close to the fire-bombing of Dresden? I have seen videos like the one you posted in which the collateral damage is terrible and tragic. But her death is not proof of a targeting failure -- if that poor girl was being used as a human shield, the blame lies with Hamas. I don't know where she was when her precious life was tragically cut short, so I'm not ready to rush to judgment that it is a war crime. I think it should be investigated. I also think it is rich to call for a ceasefire while Israeli, American, Thai, French, etc. civilians are being held hostage and Hamas is still firing rockets. Release all kidnap victims, cease all offensive operations, and then the discussion about a ceasefire can begin.
Is the indignation over Egypt going to make things right? Egypt isn’t bombing Gaza- Israel is. And in Rumpole’s blog post he specifically mentioned that Egypt is part of the blockade of Gaza. But you don’t want reason. You want a “Israel is right no matter what” post and Rumpole is speaking out where most dread to speak- just because you are entitled to revenge doesn’t mean it’s the humane thing to do. And yes, Hamas is not humane- so just admit it- Hamas has made Israel inhumane - which is the theme of the blog post. Rumpole is right and you cannot stand it.
ReplyDeleteIncorrect, hamas has not made Israel inhumane. Israel is humane, like the U.S., constantly held to and behaving with a higher standard.
DeleteIsraeli soldiers will NOT be raping Palestinian women and desecrating their bodies. Israeli soldiers will NOT be decapitating babies.
Israeli soldiers are fighting a war now, because Israel was attacked. Will innocent people die? Of course. That is how hamas makes it happen. That is the definition of human shields.
For you to state that there is any equivalency between the actions of the murderous terrorists and the duty of the Israeli soldiers to defend their country is 100% utter bullshit. Go suck a big one.
No, I don’t want to see dead Israeli babies. What I want is for you to stop with the false equivalence. That Arab baby wasn’t murdered by Israelis. It was used as a human shield by Hamas, murdered by HAMAS. The Jewish babies were decapitated and burned by Hamas.
ReplyDeleteGet your head out of your ass.
Yes the blame lies with Hamas for the death of that girl. But Israel does not have to do what it is doing. There is a third way. and my use of a Nazi analogy was pointed to the stomach churning statements of Netanyahu and others that civilians in Gaza should leave. It is an outrageous lie when they are the reason (ALONG WITH EGYPT) why civilians cannot leave. It is a lie on the same level of Arbect Macht Frie in my opinion and I said it and I stand by it. Is it not enough to bomb and kill children? Do they have to mock the powerless as well and tell them to do something they know they cannot do?
ReplyDeleteNo great police officer I know would shoot a child being used as a shield by a gunman- even if the gunman pointed a gun at the cop. They would find another way. The child would not be shot and the gunman blamed and you damn well know that.
When Israel kills children and blames Hamas -on that issue and that issue alone- they are no better than Hamas and more to blame because they are humane and do know better.
Btw when Israel is going to bomb a building. And they announce it, and roof knock to let civilians know to get out, they CAN get out. However, when their leaders tell them “Don’t leave, we live here we die here.” “They are just trying to scare you”, and so they stay, and the building drops on them, then what? Do you expect Israel to go and physically force Palestinians out of buildings before bombing them??
DeleteThey are victims, but victims of their leaders.
A Hamas official was saying online today that Israelis love life, but they do not. For them the greatest honor is martyrdom. So it’s so disingenuous how they love death and martyrdom, but when they get what they want, they ACT like they care about life. That’s for the cameras. That’s propaganda for the rest of the world that does love and value life.
10:25 yes Israel is responsible for the death of the baby- see my comment above. We don’t kill human shields and blame the criminal. It’s inhumane.
ReplyDeleteA soldier didn’t shoot a baby that a terrorist was holding in front of him as a shield. A building where Hamas fired rockets from, or stored weapons in, or that Hamas was otherwise operating from, was leveled, and even though warnings were probably given, people died in the rubble.
DeleteIf I jump in front of a car and use you to block me, it’s not the driver of the car that killed you, it’s me.
We can all make analogies. Yours just happen to be horse shit.
Stand by your horse shit all you like. Hell, bathe in it, swim in it and eat it, and then keep puking it up here.
No matter how many times the excrement comes out of your mouth, and no matter what flowery language you surround it with, people with brains still recognize horse shit when they smell it.
And by the way for all of you incensed at my standing up for innocent families and children who happen to live in Gaza, you can scream all you want about Hamas brutalizing babies. I get it. The world gets it. We all have heard it and know it to be true. The others being brutalized also need a voice and that is what I am doing. Like it or not. Two wrongs do not make a right. Never.
ReplyDelete10:34 you are sure solders will not commit atrocities when all soldiers in every war do? To me, bombing civilians is an atrocity- period
ReplyDeleteHaha you are so predictable.
DeleteYes, In every group of people there are some bad people. There are Israeli soldiers who commit crimes and there are American soldiers who commit crimes. It is not however the policy and procedure of either army to do so. It’s against the rules and against the law.
In contrast, that IS the policy and procedure of hamas. It is not bad actors in a group of soldiers. It is their goal and method to rape and murder. It’s the practice of the WHOLE group. That’s what makes them terrorists, remember?
You can’t really be this stupid, so you must just be the hugest raging asshole troll.
Bombing buildings that happen to have civilians in them because their leaders keep their civilians where they keep their weapons is an atrocity committed by their leaders, not Israel.
DeleteSo yes, hamas commits atrocities on both Palestinians and Israelis.
That’s why Hamas must be eliminated. You keeping up?
And since the Palestinian people have neither the means nor the ability to overthrow their oppressors HAMAS, Israel is the only one that can.
Thank you Israel.
Your analogy to the cop holding his fire is more specious thinking.
ReplyDeleteAny "good cop" would fire back if the gunman was not just pointing the gun at them, but instead was firing rockets that were endangering not just the cop but also other civilians. And here, the baby-wearing, gun-toting terrorist is not just firing rockets, but directing terror-lynching squads with reports that they were still in Israel as of yesterday.
Bombing civilians is a tragedy/atrocity, whatever you want to call it. But there is no proof that the civilians were the target. If Hamas could have doubled the death toll and lynchings, it would have. If Israel could respond with precision to remove the tunnels, rockets, zip ties, machine guns, and terrorists with 0 civilian casualties, it would. It does not aim to kill civilians and the collateral consequences are terrible, often inevitable, should always be minimized, etc. But should Israel simply do nothing and allow better and more lethal weapons, strategies, etc to be developed and the 150 hostages to be kept in order to avoid being associated with bloodshed. It's really easy to tell other people in a besieged land to turn the other cheek.
The decapitating babies thing is propaganda. Happens in every war to dehumanize the enemy. No evidence it happened according to even the Israeli government.
ReplyDeleteI see a lot of comments about "false equivalents" and that anything short of full support for today's violence is "anti-Jewish." Shame on you. Dead children and their crying mothers and fathers do not care about your judgments of blame and fault. They don't care about your religion.
ReplyDeleteA trapped people are being slaughtered. This is genocide. That's it.
If you agree with what Israel is doing, at least have the courage to stand up and call a spade a spade. Say it you dogs. You support genocide. You believe that its kill or be killed and you are perfectly fine with the mass slaughter of children because they are not your own children.
Nobody is genociding them. Their population is growing, not shrinking. They are oppressed by their own people, their leaders. Israel does not control the whole border of Gaza. Israel is not going to allow them to run into Israel, for OBVIOUS reasons. Egypt can let them all in. But they don’t either. I wonder why. Last I checked Egypt wasn’t a Jewish state. In fact, Israel was pretty much the only place that did allow gazans in. They let them in to work, they let their children come to be treated in Israeli hospitals (now bombed by Hamas). There are literally terrorists being treated in Israeli hospitals right now.
DeleteWake up to reality instead of repeating terrorist propaganda.
10:24
ReplyDeleteEgypt isn’t bombing Gaza because Hamas didn’t attack Egypt. Damn you might be even more thick that your buddy R. What Egypt is doing though is keeping the gazans trapped like rats in a target range right? So they, who admittedly are not involved in any conflict with the “Palestinians”, and are their Muslim brothers, should open the blockade and let the people escape right? No? Why not? You want Israel to let them in, while they are under attack from there. But you are perfectly fine with Egypt keeping their border sealed.
Yeah, you’re not biased at all.
Rump,
ReplyDeleteIf killing civilians, unarmed men, women and children, is a war crime then what was the carpet bombing of Germany in 1944-45. Bet yet hat about Hiroshima and Nagasaki?
Wow Rumpole, you have really stirred up the Hornet’s nest haven’t you? You are a student of history. What do you see Hamas doing going forward? They must have anticipated Israel’s massive response to their attack. And how will Iran fit into all of this?
ReplyDeleteU.s.is pro Israel. Runs to help, sends fleet. Suicide bomber damages or sinks u.s
ReplyDeleteBoat. Game on. Military industrial complex gets to make billions . been hearing about Israel for 50 years. How about we offer refuge to all Israel citizens in the I.s. www have let 4 million illegals. An educated addition who are respectful of democratic principles. Leave the dirt behind for my,car and FL.
@1135:
ReplyDeleteHamas, evil doers that they are, did this to trigger Israel into doing EXACTLY what Israel is doing. They knew that Israel, under its current degenerate leadership, would carry out a genocide.
Under the cover of this genocide, people of good faith would be (and are being) repulsed from the Israeli side and fanatics throughout the Muslim world will be stoked to action.
Israel is being played like a puppet on a string. Shame on Hamas. Shame on Netanyahu.
Hopefully this does not drag the U.S. and other powers into a larger conflict - which is exactly what Hamas hopes will happen.
Right now as we speak, Israel, the US and Egypt are in talks to try to figure out how to get civilians out of Gaza.
ReplyDeleteIsrael and the US always held to a higher standard, and always trying to AVOID civilian casualties.
This is not a war between Israel and Palestine or Israel and Gaza. It’s Israel and Hamas. Hamas are terrorists and hold both the kidnapped victims and their own populace hostage. They target and brutalize innocent civilians. And STILL Israel tries to save their civilian lives.
But if you think in any way that Israel should put her weapons down and not defend herself and not eradicate Hamas, you are blind or very very dumb.
So what you’re saying is if they didn’t actually decapitate babies then it’s not that bad and stop crying about dead babies who are murdered because babies that are targeted and slaughtered is the same as babies that are human shields and it’s all Israel’s fault and Free Free Palestine, from the River to the sea.
ReplyDeleteIs that what you said, because that’s what I heard.
Bottom line: If Hamas had not attacked Israel, NO ONE WOULD BE TALKING ABOUT THE PALESTINIANS, OR THE ISRAELI APARTHEID STATE, OR THE OPEN AIR GAZA PRISON. NO ONE GIVES A FUCK. Except Hamas.
ReplyDeletePalestinian lives have ALWAYS been worthless in Israel. They have nothing to loose. Amnesty International:
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2017/06/israel-occupation-50-years-of-dispossession/
"For half a century, Israel’s occupation of the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip has resulted in systematic human rights violations against Palestinians living there."
"Since the occupation first began in June 1967, Israel’s ruthless policies of land confiscation, illegal settlement and dispossession, coupled with rampant discrimination, have inflicted immense suffering on Palestinians, depriving them of their basic rights."
Now the genocidal monster Netanyahu is going to destroy Hamas, Gaza and the Palestinian people. THEY DON’T GIVE A FUCK. DEATH IS FREEDOM!
If there is a hell, Netanyahu ought to spend eternity locked in a cell with 100 Hamas freedom fighters.
Where is the outrage about the murder by Israel of 34 American sailors on the USS Liberty on that fatal day June 8 1967? And 172 American crew members injured?
USS Liberty incident - BBC Documentary
https://youtu.be/vyiP1tUOxig?si=KvJ5zO7B5Xuypnsq
The Day Israel Attacked America - Al Jazeera documentary
https://youtu.be/tx72tAWVcoM?si=4syaVMlJFPFRmR7y
USS Liberty incident
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident
America is on the wrong side of this conflict.
America is on the right side of this. Along with most of the civilized world.
DeleteHoney, hamas doesn’t give a rat’s ass about the Palestinian people, other than as human shields in battle or as pawns to steal all the aid sent for them by civilized countries with souls (US, Israel, etc) to use for weaponry and palaces, while their people starve. .
They IDF said they weren’t going to give numbers or details regarding decapitations out of respect for the dead. However the reports came from soldiers who witnessed the bodies.
ReplyDeleteMany things can be true at once:
ReplyDeleteThe creation of Israel sprang from the noblest of intentions, out of the direst realities. Situating a Jewish state amid an already hostile Arab world, which would only grow more hostile as Israel prospered beyond Arabs' imagining, was ultimately a tragic mistake. There is no future where Israel does not face constant nagging minor terrorism (knife attack here, pizzeria bomb there) and occasional incendiary violence (10/7/23). There are 450 million people in the arab world, half of them male, most of them young, most of them desperately poor. There are only 9 million Israelis. There is nothing -- nothing -- that will ever fix this assymmetry, short of arabs wholesale abandoning their Muslim identity, or Israelis wholesale abandoning Jewish identity. In sum, this situation is as close to permanent as anything in our world.
The US gives over $3B in aid to Israel every year, not counting this war, making it far and away the largest recipient of US aid. Our neighbor, the comparatively impoverished Mexico, who sends millions of migrants across our border overwhelming our cities, and who acts as supplier to our narcotics demand, receives only around $70M. This is prima facie ludicrous, and were D.C. accountable to democratic pressure, it would immediately be changed. But, of course, without that aid Israel would fold completely. In other words, the status quo is only sustainable so long as American politicians ignore American voters. How long do you think that will occur?
But most importantly, and this is what I think my Jewish American friends and colleagues need to most understand -- the generation of Americans steadfastly loyal to Israel are well into their 60s and 70s and 80s. Check the mood on college campuses. Look at the Hamas banners hanging at Stanford, or the public statements of student groups at Harvard and NYU. Are you starting to "get it"? Young people, for better or worse, are NOT compelled by the Holocaust anymore. The vast majority do not know anything about it, and when told, do not care much. Harsh words -- but true. All the Anne Frank movies in the world will not change this. It would be like getting young people to care and sacrifice about the Somme. Good luck with that.
Furthermore, we are a few decades away from a minority-majority USA. Do Jewish Americans think that new Americans of Mexican descent, of Honduran and Venezuelan descent, of Nigerian and Salvadoran descent, are even a fraction as sympathetic to Israel as silent gen and baby boomer white American christians? That someone whose lineage can be traced to Aztecs, etc., will feel some compelling connection to what happened in Poland in 1944?
In a phrase, the window of anyone giving a shit is closing rapidly. The AOC generation, and younger, will make your head spin with how quickly they change US-Israel relations. You wanted demographic change in the US? It's here, it's under 25 years old, and it does not feel any historical debt or blood kinship with Israel. It feels the opposite.
I myself, a non-Jew, wish nothing but the best for this tiny little country that has suffered so much. But if you live in a bubble of Jewish family and friends, Jewish south floridians, jewish lawyers and judges... I tell you, your world will change over the next twenty years. Plan accordingly.
Sounds like a threat.
DeleteReally? Never would’ve guessed you’re not Jewish, lol. But yes it is sad that people are raising their kids to be so stupid nowadays. Jews aren’t the only ones who will suffer because of that though.
Delete3:17 you cannot be that stupid. And I know you're baiting me- but this is what I wrote jackass:
ReplyDeleteThat DOES NOT lessen the outrage over the war crimes and atrocities, including a Holocaust survivor being pulled from a wheelchair and kidnapped, and whole families simply and senselessly and horrifically slaughtered by Hamas terrorists.
So since you're trying to stir up trouble, please stop reading the blog. Go somewhere else. Anywhere else actually. Or is this all you have?
Because I choose to condemn Israel for a non-proportional response that is resulting in the needless death of children and families, everyone turns blind and deaf and no matter how many times I write about the criminal acts of Hamas and the need to destroy that terrorist group, all people see and hear is me saying that I am worried about innocent Palestinians children and families- as I would be worried about innocent Afghans, Armenians, Greeks, Koreans, Polynesians, or any other group of people under imminent threat of death- and scream "what about the innocent Jewish families being killed why don't you mention them?" and no matter how many times I do mention them, it goes right by you all because you have become deaf and blind because of fear, hate and grief. It is so very disturbing, troubling, and actually sad.
ReplyDeleteWhat the actual fuck non-proportional response are you even talking about??? Has Gaza been leveled??? No. Are you mad about all the dead terrorists??? I hope not. Stop crying wolf. Come back when the place is a parking lot.
DeleteSorry Rump but gotta call you out about addressing all atrocities. Why haven’t you written about the atrocities in Africa, Eritrea or Central / Sub Saharan regions? Just saying there is a lot of hate and violence in the world.
DeleteSir Wilfred, R responds to you because he lacks the cojones to go toe to toe with me. It’s nice you throw him bones that he can nibble on and still feel like he’s being tough.
DeleteSir Wilfred,
ReplyDeleteviolence begets violence.
Hate begets hate.
All sides in WWII committed atrocities and war crimes and I wish we had evolved and become more civilized since then. But we have not.
As to the use of atomic weapons, it is indeed a similar scenario and I do admit that I have in the past supported the use of the atomic weapons because of the anticipated casualty toll on Americans who would have had to jump into Japan. The final battle before Japan was Okinawa, about 320 miles from the Japanese homeland and the vicious nature of the defense to the death led Truman to conclude that he would save more lives (mostly American) by using the atomic bomb twice.
There are subtle differences between the two scenarios, including that Japan was engaged in a world war threatening world domination, and Hamas hardly has the ability to do that. And again for the umpteenth time I do not discount the now proven danger of Hamas to any and every Israeli that has made the destruction of Hamas a priority. But after the initial attacks and killing of Hamas leadership, why not sit with OTHER non-Hamas leaders in Gaza and create a working solution that does not breed the kind of hopelessness and hate that has created Hamas.
It can be done. And instead of killing innocent children, something else needs to be done.
Hamas isn’t only after the Jews. The Jews first. But they want to bring the whole world under extremist Islamic rule.
ReplyDeleteHamas does not care about their people. Hamas puts them in harms way. Israel tries all they can to avoid civilian casualties. You know this to be true. What else do you expect them to do?? What else??? Not fight back after being attacked??
We (civilized humans, Israelis, Americans, etc) want peace. But the other side loves death. Please get that through your head.
Americans civilized? Only in a world this shitty can you say that and keep a straight face! We killed over 300,000 Iraquís, men, women, and children, over a lie that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction, when we knew it didn’t? How many children did we kill in Vietnam? Hiroshima and Nagasaki? We killed 200,000 people, yet have the audacity to call anyone else a terrorist.
DeleteYou’ve wandered into a territory where you clearly do not belong. You should have stuck to discussing criminal cases, making fun of judges, lawyers etc. Hamas’ goal is to wipe the Jewish people off the planet. You are either on the side of the Jewish people or the terrorists. There is no in between.
ReplyDeleteGARBAGE: "You are either on the side of the Jewish people or the terrorists. There is no in between."
ReplyDeleteHere is a partial list of the terrorists: The genocidal monster Netanyahu and his inner circle (not the Jewish People). In Russia, Vladimir Putin and his inner circle (not the Russian People). And in 1938 after Kristallnacht, Hitler and his inner circle (not the German People).
Rumpole deserves credit for "wandered into a territory". This is a matter for the International Criminal Court (ICC). Netanyahu ought to be tried and executed for war crimes under the Rome Statute. The ICC has already issued a warrant for Putin. To bad the ICC did not exist in 1938 to get Hitler. But we can thank Ben Ferencz for his tireless efforts with the ICC. Its time to pick up his mantel.
Most Peoples want to live in peace. Its only a relative handful of genocidal monsters, the psychopaths, like Netanyahu, Putin, Hitler and (fill in the blank) that must be stopped. Yes, this is very much a matter of International Law.
RumpRoast, though you were smarter than to fall for the Hamas strategy.
ReplyDeleteFor the person sending the Biden comment about what he saw, the White House walked back those comments. It has not been confirmed as every major news outlet has not said repeatedly.
ReplyDeleteStunning that you refused to publish that. The United States President Joe Biden said at a press conference that he had seen proof of children being beheaded. And you refused to allow me to report the President’s statement here.
DeleteYou can’t walk back seeing beheaded babies. Biden is such an embarrassment
ReplyDeleteThe real tragedy is that all the inhumanity from the Mid East to Africa, to Rus/ Ukrainian , China to the Uhgars , all of this is humanity being human. For FOUR Millennia we , humanity, has been engaging in atrocity after atrocity; the other sides are always labeled as savages and barbarians . The winning side writes history, but the truth is still there to see.
ReplyDeleteThere would not be a need for a Commandment of Though Shall Not Kill , if we humans didn’t kill each other.
Life is precious. But we have to understand that everyone does not feel this way. To some people death is more precious, death is glory. When images of dead Palestinian children are seen, Israelis don’t celebrate. They don’t spit on their bodies and dance on their graves. The war is with Hamas, not the Palestinian people. You even see Israelis protesting against their own government on behalf of the Palestinian people. You see Israeli hospitals treating their wounded. People are also working to try to get some sort of safe passage for them.
ReplyDeleteHowever, when the images of the dead Israelis are seen, images, videos and the actual bodies paraded through the streets, we see people cheering, laughing, handing out sweets. Those hijabi women handing out sweets don’t appear to be Hamas terrorists. They aren’t in military style gear or carrying weapons. They appear to be just Palestinian people. The people we aren’t at war with.
So please understand that hamas is the enemy, not the Palestinian people. But do not for a moment forget that the Palestinian people are celebrating dead Israelis. They are oppressed by Hamas, but still want death to the Jews.
This is part of why there will never be peace there. Because one side loves life and the other loves death. One side wants to coexist and the other only wants to annihilate. From the river to the sea means just that. Believe them when they say it.
They are in a death cult. Don’t forget this.
https://x.com/jerusalem_post/status/1712460425529372821?s=46
ReplyDeleteThank you
DeleteRump. you are a fool.All of Gaza should be turned into a parking lot.
ReplyDelete7:18 BECAUSE THE WHITE HOUSE WALKED IT BACK
ReplyDeleteAs we stand now, Jewish and Israeli babies were murdered and burned. Brutal. Horrific. Nazi like. Beheadings like the Taliban did to the Jewish Journalist Daniel Pearl- whose death I HAVE NOT FORGOTTEN- unlike those currently outraged and attacking me for being an anti-semite- have not yet been proven. And why do they? It's enough of an unspeakable crime that innocent babies and children were killed. And I continue to say, and won't stop, it is heart breaking that the one country that has been humane and should be humane, Israel, is continuing on a course of conduct where more children will die. The simple fact that hospitals are without power will cause children and adults to die of very curable things like say, appendicitis. This is tragic, not to mention the toll being bombed is taking on children. Mark my words- it will breed hate and a new cycle of violence.
Hamas planned this attack for a very very long time. They knew that Israel would retaliate. They had ample time to prepare their country to endure a war. If Gazans don’t have enough food, water and electricity, that is because of HAMAS.
ReplyDeleteThey stockpiled missiles and bullets instead of food and water. They acquired rocket launchers instead of generators.
It is not Israel’s responsibility to save the people of Gaza from their leaders. Although they try, because the world must be rid of the cancer, it is not Israel’s responsibility to take care of people who wish only for their genocide.
Watch a video or two of Palestinian children, talking about what they are taught about Jews. They are taught at home and in school to hate the Jews and to kill them. Little children talking about how they want to stab Jews and run them over.
That society is fucked. You can’t fix people who are raised like that. It’s like trying to rehabilitate child molesters and serial killers. You can’t. Their brains are already warped. You can only remove them from society, in one way or another.
I honestly think that the Israeli hostages, as much as I’d like them to be saved, are probably better off dead than living in hamas captivity. The same may be true for the Palestinian hostages of Hamas.
If Hamas cannot be eradicated, there is no hope for anyone there.
Aren’t you an attorney? But suddenly, for you, witness testimony is not evidence? You, a criminal defense attorney no less, are saying that the eyewitness testimony of soldiers and the people who were there removing the bodies is not good enough for you? No, you need to have what? Photos of headless babies? Videos? Maybe it needs to happen in person for you? Otherwise there’s just no proof?
ReplyDeleteWow, I hope your next jury feels the same way when your client’s girlfriend says “It couldn’t have been him because he was with me, I swear!”
A Plea of Humanity to Law (The Guardian, April 9, 2023)
ReplyDeleteSeventy-six years ago, at the Palace of Justice in Nuremberg – once the site of annual torchlit Nazi rallies – Ben Ferencz, a punchy 27-year-old whose short build was all but concealed behind the tall wooden podium, opened the biggest murder trial in history.
It was his first ever trial, but all 22 members of the Einsatzgruppen he was prosecuting – Nazi extermination squads responsible for the murder of a million Jews and other minorities – were duly convicted of war crimes and crimes against humanity.
Ferencz, last surviving prosecutor of the Nuremberg trials, died on Friday in Florida at the age of 103. Present at the liberation of Nazi concentration camps as a US soldier, Ferencz went on to play a key role in the establishment of the International criminal court (ICC) in the 1990s.
He was hailed as an "icon in international criminal justice" by Fatou Bensouda, former chief prosecutor of the ICC, after decades of international legal work and campaigning for peace and justice.
"Vengeance is not our goal, nor do we seek merely a just retribution," he said in his opening statement at Nuremberg in 1947. "The case we present is a plea of humanity to law."
https://www.theguardian.com/law/2023/apr/09/from-nuremberg-to-the-icc-ben-ferencz-never-gave-up-fighting-for-international-justice
Opinion | ROOM FOR PALESTINIANS
ReplyDeleteBen Ferencz Aug-18-1982, New York Times
To the Editor:
If the 34-year tragedy of Palestinians and Israelis is to be ended, a new initiative and direction is mandatory. Killing will bring only the peace of the dead; permanent tranquillity requires that the Jews once again make the Arabs their friends.
A Times map (Aug. 12) points to a possible solution.
Let oil-rich Saudi Arabia, in the interest of peace, cede a relatively small portion of its vast territory for the creation of an independent Palestinian state bordering on Jordan and the Red Sea. Israel and others could be required to offer help and compensation as two and one-half million refugees now in Lebanon, Israel, Gaza and the West Bank begin a new life among Moslem brethren adjacent to their original homeland.
The sacrifices suggested by such a realignment of borders will be far less than the cost of incessant warfare. Terrorism and combat can only end if its causes are removed. BENJAMIN B. FERENCZ, New Rochelle, N.Y., Aug. 12, 1982
https://www.nytimes.com/1982/08/18/opinion/l-room-for-palestinians-089966.html
Just because 3% of the u.s is Jewish does not equate to committing 2 carrier groups to the Mediterranean. All it will take is one suicide bombers by plane or sea on one US warship and we are in war in the Middle East. This will lead to our bankruptcy as a nation as Reagan/ Bush did to Soviet Union in late 80's. This is Russia/Putin's revenge. China and Russia win, US defeated after 80 year reign and Americans have to adjust to life no longer a military and economic world bully. World history dictates it had to end sometime. Who. is calling the shots? The ones who always have since Hiroshima: the White billionaires, military industrial complex that IKE warned of , and the CIA/NSA.Remember where you were when Iran attacks our warships.
ReplyDeleteGood try terrorist.
DeleteThe warships are not there to protect Israel per se--they are there to protect international corporate interests--specifically the oil industry and the sea lanes surrounding the Middle East. Nothing against Israel, but, in addition to Zionism, the main reason for its existence is to protect Western capitalism--it is a proxy state for corporate interests as the only reliable ally in an area rufe with some of the most savage and duplicitous cultures in the world. Don't believe me? Check out the 1956 Suez War in which corporate interests precipitated a fake crisis in order to get French and British troops to take over the Suez Canal. As long as Israel exists, Western interests will have a base to protect their resources and business plans.
ReplyDelete