WELCOME TO THE OFFICIAL RICHARD E GERSTEIN JUSTICE BUILDING BLOG. THIS BLOG IS DEDICATED TO JUSTICE BUILDING RUMOR, HUMOR, AND A DISCUSSION ABOUT AND BETWEEN THE JUDGES, LAWYERS AND THE DEDICATED SUPPORT STAFF, CLERKS, COURT REPORTERS, AND CORRECTIONAL OFFICERS WHO LABOR IN THE WORLD OF MIAMI'S CRIMINAL JUSTICE. POST YOUR COMMENTS, OR SEND RUMPOLE A PRIVATE EMAIL AT HOWARDROARK21@GMAIL.COM

Tuesday, July 17, 2007

CHIEF JUDGE AND PD SALARIES

Broward has elected a new Chief Judge. Victor Tobin wins 49-38.

The Broward Blog also has some good information on how Broward continues to send non-violent african americans to prison twice as much as any other county.


PD SALARIES???

A controversy has erupted on the blog comments section. I received an email purporting to list the salaries for top paid PD's. I didn't feel right about posting it. I then received several private and public emails in support of publishing the list, so I published it; then I took it down. I am willing to consider changing my mind but here are my thoughts:

There is no allegation that anyone is doing anything wrong here. Thus, I am forced to conclude the spirit behind the desire to post the salary list is malicious and intended to embarrass those on the list. The list is public record and easily obtained. Anyone can create a website and post the list for whatever purposes they have.

My thought is that a salary is sort of a personal matter. I freely admit we have mocked and ridiculed individuals on these pages, but in every instance it was a public figure doing something related to their job. To just try and embarrass someone based on how much they earn or do not earn just does not sit right with me.

Therefore, until someone can convince me otherwise, I choose not to publish the PD salary list, and I would make the same decision for the SAO salary list. If anyone has information that someone is earning a salary for something they are not doing or have not legitimately earned, we would allow those posts up and invite comment on the matter.

As my law school professor used to say every time I gave the wrong answer in class "Sometimes wrong, but never in doubt."

See You In Court.

33 comments:

Anonymous said...

Couple times a year PARADE magazine publishes "What People Earn," all you out there who can't get by without knowing what other people make, can read that.

Good decision Rump.

Fake Johnny Ola said...

OK- Hyman Roth tries to kill Michael at his house in Nevada with inside help from Fredo. But who kills the hit men after they shoot up the house? Fredo can't even control his wife, so it can't be him.

Anonymous said...

I was rolling on the floor laughing at rumpole's last post ending with this insecure quote:

"As my law school professor used to say every time I gave the wrong answer in class "Sometimes wrong, but never in doubt."

It is not unlike our favorite slacker, George Louis Costanza, who once said:

"Jerry, just remember, it's not a lie if you believe it"

Anonymous said...

How many administrators making over, well over 100k/yr woild it take fro you to consider these taxpayer-funded jobs public business? The PDO is not a private firm. It is, they are, apid for by us. And if there are a lot of lawyers making 120k at a PD office and they're not doing to much else, why is that not public? Its a form os soft corrruption at our expense, and , ultimately, at the expense of the idigent defendant. If all these admistratice slavkers didn't eat up so much of the payroll, each actual courtroom atty could handle far fewer cases, and the office could retain promising young lawyers more easily. I find your reasons for refusing to publish this info slight in the extreme compared to the larger issue. ALWAYS WATCH THE GOVERMENT, HOWARD!!!

Rumpole said...

Lets make sure we understand my position here- the PDs salaries and the ASA salaries are public records- anyone can get them, and I support that law. The email I got was a selected list of individuals salaries. It was in my opinion an attempt to embarass these people for some reason. I know that some long time PDs who earn a very good salary 110K+ were not on that list. Why? perhaps they were friends of the individual who sent me the list. The list was NOT a scanned document- it was merely a typed up comment that one makes when they use this comment window. Meaning the list was not complete, and for that matter I have no idea if it was true and correct.

I do not trust the government. That does not mean I am out to embarass Henry Rauch, Alan Greenstein, David Weedm, Warren Schwartz, etc.

Finally, as I have said, YOU could get the list and YOU could publish it on your web site- and if YOU got in trouble for it, I would represent you for free. That doesn't mean I want to do it.

Anonymous said...

Phil should run for State attorney. He would be great. Better than the Q or the current slacker.

Anonymous said...

nothing wrong with publishing the PD salaries. public information. the problem is only if you don't print the state attys salaries too. do a public records request and print both, fair play.

these lists appear periodically in broward and are passed about surreptitiously. pre-blog days for sure. break down another barrier Rump.

Friends of Phil R. said...

phil cant take the pay cut or the grief from his wife if he left their firm to be SA or PD.

but, he would want to try cases, something the current SA and PD dont do.

Rumpole said...

Yeah like I don't have enough to do reading all these emails, creating posts, and runing a practice. Now I'm going to start filing public record requests to satisfy your prurient interests.

Anonymous said...

Michael Vick says:

Who let the dogs out!!!

Anonymous said...

You dont trust the govt , but you'll give a pass to the people who work for the govt ? Why shouldn't someone like Warren S. be a little embarassed? The guy makes 120 a yr for years and years and really doesn't do much of anything. It is our $ after all. Nothing wrong with keeping tabs on it. Why excuse yourself from this debate? Honestly, if you didnt personally know these folks, you'd not delete the numbers.

Rumpole said...

First of all, one of the reasons I didn't publish the list was because it left out a lot of long time employees, including Warren Schwartz, which made me suspicious as to whether the person who sent me the list had a bone to pick with just several PDs.

Secondly, Warren Schwartz as far as I can see works very hard at his job and is a dedicated employee.

Finally, I will not post the Broward PD salaries, or the Boston PD salaries for the same reasons.

Finally, I do not give a pass to anyone. Everyone is accountable for their actions. Because that includes me, I choose to NOT take part in what I view as an attempt to embarass or humiliate people for no discernable reason.

Anonymous said...

Rumpole
I just dont get the BS about the P.D. salarys. If you start at $21,000 after 30 years at an average raise of $3,000 a year you would earn $111K/yr. All thoses long-toothed PDs handle Capital cases and are covering c case overloads. They are easily worth what they get paid. The Office still represents clients at an effective rate of less then $500 a case.
D. Sisselman
ps
I ain't earning near that; but I don't begrudge them their reasonable well-earned compensation

Rumpole said...

BREAKING NEWS

MICHAEL VICK, FALCONS QB INDICTED FOR CONSPIRACY TO TRAVEL IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE IN AID OF UNLAWFUL ACTIVITIES AND FOR PROMOTION OF ILLEGAL DOG FIGHTING.

Our favourite federal blogger writes on his blog that he was "traveling" today. Of late he has been the target of animal rights activists for his lawsuit to allow cockfighting in Puerto Rico to be broadcast over the internet. Hmm....is something brewing here?

And as always, Mr. Sisselman's comments are wise and on the money.

Anonymous said...

I am a PD and am not opposed to you posting my salary. In fact, I can give you a hint on what my salary is....after 2 years, it still ain't didly squat. Bumkis, nada, nilch. I think my secretary, who has no higher education at all, earns a higher salary than I do - she has been typing out schedlues for many more years than I have, but, hey, I have 7 extra years of higher learning!

Rumpole said...

Send me an email from your private address and it if makes you feel better I will be happy to post your salary on the front page.

Anonymous said...

Sisselman, Your missing the point with the PD salary list. Ofcourse
longevity should account for something and ofcourse those PD's
who have lasted 30 years deserve to make more than the new guys.

The real issue is that the 5th floor sometimes tells the young lawyers that there is no money for additional raises, other times they say that you have to do a certain amount of trials to get the largest raise available, and yet other times they will lie to you and say that you got the biggest raise they gave out.

All of this when between 2004 and 2007 Carlos Martinez gave himself a 49K raise yet did not do any jury trials during that period. When multiple administrators not
fighting in the pits each day and not doing any jury trials at all,
receive 20K raises over the same
three year period (Rebecca Cox and
Corlette Floyd).

Every time the PD salary list gets out, the young lawyers at our office finally realize that when the office tells you to go to trial and how that will get you the
big bonuses, they are flat out lying. The reason they want you to
do those trial kiddies at the PD's,
is so they keep getting the budget
they are accustomed to and so they can keep milking the system more.

Still a PD Despite the Lack of Leadership.

Anonymous said...

8:29, apparently you learned nothing from your higher learning. It's bupkis, not bumkis, you moron.

Anonymous said...

Rump,
Here is my quick rundown:
PD, two years out of law school.
Salary - $3,139.33 per month.

Anonymous said...

People ask me why I dislike Phil. R.? I will answer the question again. Some top reasons are:

He is arrogant.

Blogs that he is the greatest death penalty lawyer on earth (actually says Miami).

Advertises traffic ticket cases but tells us fair minded bloggers that he only does serious felony's.

Did I mention he is arrogant.

Does not like court personal visiting his house on Sundays (allright I like him for that one).

Violent temper.

For unknown reasons wants to shoot judicial assistants.

Ummm... let me think? Did I mention he is arrogant?

Brought to you by Pathalogical Liars Association of America "PLAA". When exagerating your credentials on a blog is a must "PLAA" is here for you.

Anonymous said...

Sisselman makes a silly comment regarding seniority pay and its consequences and you call him wise and on point. Since when did you become a propenent of such a inherently corrupting (and essentially collectivist) scheme? If you dont wish to publish the PD salaries, fine, but dont grovel to nonsense.

Anonymous said...

Who kills the hit men after they shoot up the house?

Michael explains that the perpetrators of the plot - the hit men - are already dead: "Unless I'm very wrong, they're dead already. They were killed by somebody close to us - inside. Very, very frightened they botched it." He suspects that someone on the inside betrayed him - "somebody close to us" in the Corleone family:

See, all our people are businessmen. Their loyalty's based on that. One thing I learned from Pop was to try to think as people around you think. And on that basis, anything's possible.

Two corpses are found in the water by a drainpipe - their throats have been cut.

To me, it would seem that Michael's own people would have shot the assassins, not cut their throats. Therefore, I have to believe, that people working with either Hyman Roth, Frankie Pentangeli and/or Fredo, killed the assassins once the attempt was botched, to silence them.

Anonymous said...

Let's see, you won't post the list but you'll post a comment containing Warren Schwartz's salary? How is that not hypocritical and unfair?

Either do or don't. I think you should, since it's public record. And, no I don't think you have to publish the entire list to be fair. The guys who get paid the big bucks and earn the high salaries won't be embarassed (why should they?), they guys who don't, deserve to be.

Whatever you do though, at least do it fairly.

PS---I find it amusing that you allow all sorts of allegations and crazy postings (even now) that may embarass the crap out of someone, yet won't post the salary stuff. I don't get that. I'd much rather you post my salary that allow some anonymous jerk to hammer me with a specious accusation. Think of all of the malacious comments you've allowed re judges, BHB, KFR and various administrators at the PDO and SAO. And you're worried about salaries? A bit sanctimonious in my opinion.

Anonymous said...

8:29,

Your secretary is probably better at her job than you'll ever be at yours.

What did you think when you were hired, that you'd be making 100g's after two years? What part of "Public Defenders Office" didn't you understand? The biggest problem with the office is that they've hired too many people, like you, that would make such clueless remarks. God help your clients.

Rumpole said...

I didn't post Mr. Schwartz's salary. I posted a comment by someone alledging that was his salary, and there is no proof that it is. You can write Mr. Schwartz earns 100 million a year, and that is no proof either. I thought there was a difference, but of course as I said before

"Sometimes wrong, never in doubt."
I try my best.

Anonymous said...

Is the salary at the PD's office discretionary? I guess I always thought that every first year makes the same amount and every 4th year makes the same amount. I thought that was the case with gov't jobs. If you're a level 7 you make the same as every other level 7 in the office, no?

Anonymous said...

Thank God for 2:11 a.m. and his / her remarks about 8:29 p.m. I adopt EVERY WORD of what (s)he said. A two year lawyer with a arrogant, sanctimonious, self-entitlement attitude like yours is an embarassment not only to us but to attorneys in general as well. I've worked in this office for over 11 years and have had to listen and put up with a lot of BS from a lot of small minded people but you take the cake. Being a lwayer for 2 years is about equivalent to be a lawyer for all of five minutes with the amount of knowledge you have accumulated at this point. If I knew who you were, I would hope that I could muster enough decorum not to humiliate you in front of your peers. But I couldn't make any promises......

Anonymous said...

9:43 -
Don't you think that it should be considered by the bosses whether you have gone to trial 14 times and your other 4th year friend has not gone to trial at all? Or whether you have scheduled 40 depos in aweek and they have scheduled only 5? Or whether they actually SEE and talk to their clients as opposed to your friend who leaves early every day?

Come on. Are you another 2 year lawyer who's pissed that their secretary who been here for 10 years makes more than them.

I wish I was in charge so I could CLEAN HOUSE!

Anonymous said...

10:17 p.m. is your $3139.33 every month before or after taxes. I make just about that much after taxes, but have been here a couple more years than you. Also what is all the hype about a 100k plus salary for long-time veterans? Don't starting associates at the big firms pull in 135k to start?

Anonymous said...

Lets see, there's like 200 pd's?

Maybe 15-20 people making over 100k?

Let's say 20.

If we cut their salaries all to 80k, that would leave about, and I approximate, 25-40k per person, so average 33k per person?

That would leave about 650k to spread out over 180 people.

So each pd would get about 3,600 more.

Would that change anyone's life?

Really, other than making some things financially easier, would it CHANGE, YOUR, LIFE?

Why doesn't everyone just shut the hell up and practice law. Get your experience in the pd's office and LEAVE and make more money if you can. It's not a place to get rich, its a public service, so serve the damn public and shut up.

A FORMER PD WHO WENT INTO PRIVATE PRACTICE AND NEVER WHINED ABOUT THE PAY WHILE AT THE PD'S OFFICE BECAUSE I KNEW IT WAS A P-U-B-L-I-C SERVICE JOB.

Anonymous said...

Here's the problem... First year associates at Greenburg Traurig get 160k.

The difference is too great. The public sector ranks are filled with grads from St. Thomas, Nova and FIU. And while there are a few folks who graduate from a fourth tier school and make incredible lawyers, that is the exception, not the norm.

Lately, it seems that many of the lawyers hired at my "agency" were unable to demonstrate a basic grasp of the English language.

Really, it's time to start hating the few who make a decent living and start demanding that lawyers get paid more than uneducated beat cops and miami-dade bus drivers.

Anonymous said...

11:59,

If you're a PD, do us all a favor and RESIGN! If the "difference" between a PD's salary and a first year associate's salary at major firms is "too great," please go work somewhere else...you are a cancer and need to be excised. You espouse "hate" as a solution? Get a life, elsewhere, please. OK, public sector criminal justice attorneys are underpaid. If it matters that much, DON'T BE ONE. Who holds the purse strings? Did you take civics? Do you have any understanding of government? Write your friggin' congressperson, and oh, did I mention IF YOU ARE AN ASSISTANT PUBLIC DEFENDER, PLEASE QUIT.

Anonymous said...

Rumpole, you are so full of it and filled with Double Standards.

Also, Phil R. is about to get a Bar Complaint. Sorry Phil.