When you see something that is not right, not fair, find a way to get in the way and cause trouble.
Congressman John Lewis
Thursday, December 03, 2015
NEW MASS SHOOTING
There was a new mass shooting yesterday in California.
The Headline of the NY Daily News says it all about the climate in the US and how we are handling these problems. We would add that the NRA is not fixing this problem either.
How would the various proposals for tightening control on guns have prevented these mass shootings?
Don't get me wrong, I'm in favor of stricter controls (solidly "gun control") but after every one of these mind-numbing tragedies, it's the usual "we need to do something." I agree. But . . . what's the proximate cause argument?
The attacks are always on soft targets - gun free zones. You want to prevent these attacks, it's a two-fold process. 1) recognize signs of radicalism/mental health issues and don't be afraid to report it. Improve access to mental health services. Eliminate the political correctness in all of this. Lives are being lost.
2) Heavily armed citizenry. All good, law-abiding citizens should be carrying guns on their persons at all times. Do away with gun free zones. If shit goes down, I pray to God a dozen well-trained, well-armed good men and women are right beside me.
The attacks are always on soft targets - gun free zones. You want to prevent these attacks, it's a two-fold process. 1) recognize signs of radicalism/mental health issues and don't be afraid to report it. Improve access to mental health services. Eliminate the political correctness in all of this. Lives are being lost.
2) Heavily armed citizenry. All good, law-abiding citizens should be carrying guns on their persons at all times. Do away with gun free zones. If shit goes down, I pray to God a dozen well-trained, well-armed good men and women are right beside me.
the california shooting was the second mass shooting yesterday. there was one in savannah, ga. you want a proximate cause argument? let's use simple math: rage + automatic gun = mass shooting.
2:20 pm, those are not automatic guns but semiautomatics. You cam also say that cars + alcohol = DUI accidents, but that would be inaccurate to say because, as in your example, the driver or shooter and his free will are left out.
Guns don't shoot themselves. People kill people....with guns. So don't give people unfettered access to them. The 2nd Amendment does not give that right. Background checks for everyone eliminating the gun show gap, weapons of war (assault guns) and their ammo outlawed for private ownership, reasonable restrictions on the mentally ill until deemed fit, and prison sentences for violators (both the possessor and the person who armed them illegally). No, it will not stop these murders nor will it get them off the streets and out of the hands of people who shouldn't have them immediately, but it will get them eventually and put a huge dent in this national tragedy. Let hunters hunt animals, not people, and allow people to own handguns only for protection.
Guns allow an angry person to enter a room and kill more people quicker than if the angry person entered the room with a knife or club. End of story. Too many guns. More guns in this country than people. Ridiculous. And now tragic.
This liberal fetish with eliminating guns is costing lives because, if for no other reason, it distracts from the discussions that need to happen -- in this case, about these radical Muslims who are determined to kill us.
And let's be frank, eliminating guns -- and nothing less -- is what you really want.
There is no gun show gap. That's a liberal fantasy.
This military gun and ammo argument. Another liberal fantasy.
You all arrogantly and derisively make fun of everyone that doesn't agree with you about overlooking facts, but nobody does that more than you with your hysterical, faux outrage over EVERYTHING that hurts your feelings or sensibilities.
Bet this kind of massacre doesn't happen at an NRA Christmas party.
You only want cops to have guns one day and then the next you want cops either prosecuted or murdered because they've shot some thug with it.
Keep trying to force the world into your delusion of a place where we all shit rainbows and piss sprinkles and all white people are racists and everyone else is a victim. In the meant time, people will keep dying because you can't talk or think like grown ups.
Muslim group slaughters hundreds of Parisians. Media assures us this has nothing to do with "real Islam", which is of course peaceful.
Muslim group terrorizes Nigeria, killing women and children and students on a campus. Sad legacy of colonialism.
Muslim couple commit massacre in California, FBI "struggles" to find motive. Was it workplace violence?
Muslim man murders on London subway days later and shouts, "This is for Islam! This is for Syria!". Wonder what caused him to do such an illogical act.
I think the real problem here is the 2nd Amendment.
3:52:00 The American people already accept that the proliferation of gun availability is wrong. The NRA stranglehold on the Congress is the problem. And people like you that refuse to yield any movement on responsible gun legislation. I don't want your hunting rifle or your handgun, I want assault weapons and their ammo off the streets and limitations on acquiring guns so that num-nuts, psychopaths and terrorists can't acquire them legally. And probably you since you seem to fit the num-nut category.
The truth is that the right wing of this country is arming these lunatics and almost every other asshole in this hemisphere. How can you justify permitting the sale of these weapons to just anybody? Its easier to buy a ak than it is to get a drivers license. Don't tell me that the nra is going to protect me by getting into a shootout with one of these nuts one day. There have been 355 such mass shootings in the country this year alone and the nra has not done shit. I don't know of one case where a decent armed citizen stopped one of these massacres. So Ms 3:52.The blood of these innocents is on you and everybody else who sells this crock of shit.
There is no single answer and no panacea to violent crime. No gun control regulation in any State has prevented use of firearms by criminals or gun violence. In 1911, New York passed the “Sullivan Act,” for years the strictest gun law in the nation. Although history proved that such strict gun laws in did not make New York any safer, California, today’s venue of the latest massacre, adopted and has stricter gun laws than does New York.
Law-abiding citizens respect laws, criminals do not. Those determined to commit crimes and reek havoc are not stymied by any law. Recall Prohibition; Organized Crime flourished as did violent crime. States sought to regulate guns, primarily handguns. Gangsters turned to the Thompson Sub-Machine Gun or “Tommy Gun” as the weapon of choice. Congress passed the gun control act of 1934, to control those automatic weapons. The act only achieved to have law-abiding citizens follow the law, it did not and has not stopped Criminals having automatic weapons. (Every well-groomed Cocaine Cowboys of the 70s-80s had a Mac sub-machine gun.)
In the 60's, the dreaded days of Hippies, drugs, racial discord, and political assignations, Congress passed the “Omnibus Crime Control and Safe Streets Act of 1968" or the “Gun Control Act of 1968." A catchy name helps political expediency. The professed objective was making the country safe through gun control. The days of the Cocaine Cowboys in South Florida and “Narco-Terrorism,” an often forgotten tag, proofs the failure of such legislation. There were then less than 500 concealed weapons permits in Miami-Dade, mainly issued for political patronage, and homicide rates were astronomical. In 1987, Florida pre-empted local gun regulations and along came the Statewide concealed carry permit. Today there are some 120,000 concealed weapons permits in Miami-Dade County, and likewise in Broward. The alarmist’s cry that the Statewide carry permit would increase violent crimes in Florida has not become reality, on the contrary.
Political expediency is not a solution. A proposition lost on both the liberals nor the extreme right. Liberals believe the answer to all social ills and the failure of gun laws is more legislation. The solution of the extreme right is mandatory sentencing, often draconian, and abolishing judicial independence. I suggest that a criminal with a gun facing 10-20-life, figures to improve his/her odds by eliminating the witness. Criminals are generally sociopaths. They rarely, if ever, consider the consequences of their actions, never thinking they will be caught or prosecuted. Propositions neither the liberals nor the extreme right seem to appreciate or factor into the equation.
We need to address mental health issue and a revamp judicial/penal system. We need to restore judicial discretion, address how we handle the mentally ill, and rethink mandatory sentencing, with emphasis a system that encourages de-escalation of violence during commission of a crime, i.e., remove the automatic minimum for use of a gun provided no victim injury. Gun regulation will not keep guns away from the mentally ill without access to mental health records. How do you achieve the latter without violating the privacy rights of the mentally ill, or the rights of individuals who seek counseling during a difficult time. Thorny questions, not suited for political expediency.
The places where these massacres have occurred are generally gun sterile areas where visitors and employees cannot carry firearms. Assailants obviously feel they can maximize their carnage with minimum risk or resistance in these venues. How many lives might have been saved had only one attendee in San Bernardino had a firearm? I suggest we not fear an armed citizenry, but should fear the depravation through regulation of our right to protect ourselves and others.
The American people have accepted gun proliferation is wrong? You little hypocritical communists don't seem to grasp that the NRA has millions upon millions of members. It isn't some faceless organization. The reason your gun grabs don't work is because of the people behind the NRA.
Your "sensible" gun laws are just code for a total gun grab. You all just do a terrible job of even pretending to say otherwise. California has the "sensible" gun laws you want. They didn't work. Bad people still did bad things. France has perhaps the delusional laws you fantasize about. Bad people still did the exact same bad things.
You hypocrites will go into court and bitch about your pedophile client's rights and protecting them but shit on the other rights that don't suit you, like gun rights (which are in the very same constitution) or the First Amendment if you're on a college campus playing victim while physically seeking to remove and intimidate the media.
What Americans HAVE accepted is that you people aren't the harmless hippies of the 60's and 70's. You are militant. You are vicious. And, your ideology is no longer some harmless experiment in world love. It's dangerous. It's toxic. It is costing real lives. It's a cancer in our country and we need to make a serious change.
12:02 -- An armed security guard in Texas took out two ISIS would-be murderers this very year. They were going to storm and raid and commit a massacre at that stupid "Draw Mohammed" event. But the armed guard took them down single handedly.
He didnt get invited to the White House, though. Maybe that's why you have no fucking idea it happened. Clock Boy, on the other hand, he got an invite.
12:02 p.m., there haven't been 355 mass shootings in 2015, there have only been 4. Those who claim 355 don't use the FBI definition of mass shooting but their own contrived definition to get a high number for propaganda purposes. http://www.breitbart.com/big-journalism/2015/12/04/mother-jones-left-claims-355-mass-shootings-2015-actual-number-4/
There is no such thing as a "gun show gap". If you buy a gun at a gun show, you have to pass a background check. In any event, none of those mandatory check nor any of the other gun control measures being proposed did any good to prevent the tragedies in Colorado and California where those proposals are already law.
"Weapons of war (assault weapons)" are neither. They are civilian modern sporting rifles. "Weapons of war (assault weapons)" are fully automatic unlike the civilian versions and the ammunition they shoot is full-metal-jacket low-lethality to comply with the Geneva Convention. That's why so many people survive wounds by AK or AR rifles and a lot less survive being shot with handgun hollow-point bullets in .357 magnum or .45 ACP.
Don't let passion and emotion interfere with facts and evidence lest you dellude yourself and end up in ridicule.
Google "Gun Control Australia" and see how Australia handled the mass killing problem it had. And see how their gun homicide rate is a fraction of what ours is. Just like France and England and lots of other civilized countries. The rest of the world has solved the gun problem with common sense. Someday, we may be able to do the same. Maybe in about 20 years or so.
7:36 pm. An armed security guard is a somewhat trained professional, not a decent armed citizen. I was right the only thing your NRA does is assist terrorists in obtaining weapons.
You think radical Islamists will respect gun laws?
ReplyDeleteIf the government institutes a gun grab only the criminals will be armed.
So many news outlets ran with that angle.
ReplyDeleteAlmost like it was coordinated.
How would the various proposals for tightening control on guns have prevented these mass shootings?
ReplyDeleteDon't get me wrong, I'm in favor of stricter controls (solidly "gun control") but after every one of these mind-numbing tragedies, it's the usual "we need to do something." I agree. But . . . what's the proximate cause argument?
The attacks are always on soft targets - gun free zones. You want to prevent these attacks, it's a two-fold process. 1) recognize signs of radicalism/mental health issues and don't be afraid to report it. Improve access to mental health services. Eliminate the political correctness in all of this. Lives are being lost.
ReplyDelete2) Heavily armed citizenry. All good, law-abiding citizens should be carrying guns on their persons at all times. Do away with gun free zones. If shit goes down, I pray to God a dozen well-trained, well-armed good men and women are right beside me.
The attacks are always on soft targets - gun free zones. You want to prevent these attacks, it's a two-fold process. 1) recognize signs of radicalism/mental health issues and don't be afraid to report it. Improve access to mental health services. Eliminate the political correctness in all of this. Lives are being lost.
ReplyDelete2) Heavily armed citizenry. All good, law-abiding citizens should be carrying guns on their persons at all times. Do away with gun free zones. If shit goes down, I pray to God a dozen well-trained, well-armed good men and women are right beside me.
the california shooting was the second mass shooting yesterday. there was one in savannah, ga. you want a proximate cause argument? let's use simple math: rage + automatic gun = mass shooting.
ReplyDeleteWas the shooter in Colorado a radical Islamist? Was Tim Mcveigh?
ReplyDeleteRemember that old adage: when guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns. It won't stop the madness
ReplyDeleteVOTE FOR TRUMP.
ReplyDeleteHe will solve these issues.
Only 2 dead if at NRA's holiday party. Stop being victims.
ReplyDeletegov. rick scott hit's hard with ruling by his right hand man.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/article47843400.html
2:20 pm, those are not automatic guns but semiautomatics. You cam also say that cars + alcohol = DUI accidents, but that would be inaccurate to say because, as in your example, the driver or shooter and his free will are left out.
ReplyDelete2:10 p.m.'s proposal is the most sensical one and it could prevent/stop mass shootings.
ReplyDeleteGuns don't shoot themselves. People kill people....with guns. So don't give people unfettered access to them. The 2nd Amendment does not give that right. Background checks for everyone eliminating the gun show gap, weapons of war (assault guns) and their ammo outlawed for private ownership, reasonable restrictions on the mentally ill until deemed fit, and prison sentences for violators (both the possessor and the person who armed them illegally). No, it will not stop these murders nor will it get them off the streets and out of the hands of people who shouldn't have them immediately, but it will get them eventually and put a huge dent in this national tragedy. Let hunters hunt animals, not people, and allow people to own handguns only for protection.
ReplyDeleteGuns allow an angry person to enter a room and kill more people quicker than if the angry person entered the room with a knife or club. End of story. Too many guns. More guns in this country than people. Ridiculous. And now tragic.
ReplyDeleteyesterday our senate killed a bill that would have kept people on the terrorist watch list from buying guns. all but one republican voted against it.
ReplyDeleteThis liberal fetish with eliminating guns is costing lives because, if for no other reason, it distracts from the discussions that need to happen -- in this case, about these radical Muslims who are determined to kill us.
ReplyDeleteAnd let's be frank, eliminating guns -- and nothing less -- is what you really want.
There is no gun show gap. That's a liberal fantasy.
This military gun and ammo argument. Another liberal fantasy.
You all arrogantly and derisively make fun of everyone that doesn't agree with you about overlooking facts, but nobody does that more than you with your hysterical, faux outrage over EVERYTHING that hurts your feelings or sensibilities.
Bet this kind of massacre doesn't happen at an NRA Christmas party.
You only want cops to have guns one day and then the next you want cops either prosecuted or murdered because they've shot some thug with it.
Keep trying to force the world into your delusion of a place where we all shit rainbows and piss sprinkles and all white people are racists and everyone else is a victim. In the meant time, people will keep dying because you can't talk or think like grown ups.
I'd like to know what hot-blonde-esq-to-be would do about this.
ReplyDeleteMuslim group slaughters hundreds of Parisians. Media assures us this has nothing to do with "real Islam", which is of course peaceful.
ReplyDeleteMuslim group terrorizes Nigeria, killing women and children and students on a campus. Sad legacy of colonialism.
Muslim couple commit massacre in California, FBI "struggles" to find motive. Was it workplace violence?
Muslim man murders on London subway days later and shouts, "This is for Islam! This is for Syria!". Wonder what caused him to do such an illogical act.
I think the real problem here is the 2nd Amendment.
3:52:00 The American people already accept that the proliferation of gun availability is wrong. The NRA stranglehold on the Congress is the problem. And people like you that refuse to yield any movement on responsible gun legislation. I don't want your hunting rifle or your handgun, I want assault weapons and their ammo off the streets and limitations on acquiring guns so that num-nuts, psychopaths and terrorists can't acquire them legally. And probably you since you seem to fit the num-nut category.
ReplyDeleteThe truth is that the right wing of this country is arming these lunatics and almost every other asshole in this hemisphere. How can you justify permitting the sale of these weapons to just anybody? Its easier to buy a ak than it is to get a drivers license. Don't tell me that the nra is going to protect me by getting into a shootout with one of these nuts one day. There have been 355 such mass shootings in the country this year alone and the nra has not done shit. I don't know of one case where a decent armed citizen stopped one of these massacres. So Ms 3:52.The blood of these innocents is on you and everybody else who sells this crock of shit.
ReplyDeleteThere is no single answer and no panacea to violent crime. No gun control regulation in any State has prevented use of firearms by criminals or gun violence. In 1911, New York passed the “Sullivan Act,” for years the strictest gun law in the nation. Although history proved that such strict gun laws in did not make New York any safer, California, today’s venue of the latest massacre, adopted and has stricter gun laws than does New York.
ReplyDeleteLaw-abiding citizens respect laws, criminals do not. Those determined to commit crimes and reek havoc are not stymied by any law. Recall Prohibition; Organized Crime flourished as did violent crime. States sought to regulate guns, primarily handguns. Gangsters turned to the Thompson Sub-Machine Gun or “Tommy Gun” as the weapon of choice. Congress passed the gun control act of 1934, to control those automatic weapons. The act only achieved to have law-abiding citizens follow the law, it did not and has not stopped Criminals having automatic weapons. (Every well-groomed Cocaine Cowboys of the 70s-80s had a Mac sub-machine gun.)
In the 60's, the dreaded days of Hippies, drugs, racial discord, and political assignations, Congress passed the “Omnibus Crime Control and Safe Streets Act of 1968" or the “Gun Control Act of 1968." A catchy name helps political expediency. The professed objective was making the country safe through gun control. The days of the Cocaine Cowboys in South Florida and “Narco-Terrorism,” an often forgotten tag, proofs the failure of such legislation. There were then less than 500 concealed weapons permits in Miami-Dade, mainly issued for political patronage, and homicide rates were astronomical. In 1987, Florida pre-empted local gun regulations and along came the Statewide concealed carry permit. Today there are some 120,000 concealed weapons permits in Miami-Dade County, and likewise in Broward. The alarmist’s cry that the Statewide carry permit would increase violent crimes in Florida has not become reality, on the contrary.
Political expediency is not a solution. A proposition lost on both the liberals nor the extreme right. Liberals believe the answer to all social ills and the failure of gun laws is more legislation. The solution of the extreme right is mandatory sentencing, often draconian, and abolishing judicial independence. I suggest that a criminal with a gun facing 10-20-life, figures to improve his/her odds by eliminating the witness. Criminals are generally sociopaths. They rarely, if ever, consider the consequences of their actions, never thinking they will be caught or prosecuted. Propositions neither the liberals nor the extreme right seem to appreciate or factor into the equation.
We need to address mental health issue and a revamp judicial/penal system. We need to restore judicial discretion, address how we handle the mentally ill, and rethink mandatory sentencing, with emphasis a system that encourages de-escalation of violence during commission of a crime, i.e., remove the automatic minimum for use of a gun provided no victim injury. Gun regulation will not keep guns away from the mentally ill without access to mental health records. How do you achieve the latter without violating the privacy rights of the mentally ill, or the rights of individuals who seek counseling during a difficult time. Thorny questions, not suited for political expediency.
The places where these massacres have occurred are generally gun sterile areas where visitors and employees cannot carry firearms. Assailants obviously feel they can maximize their carnage with minimum risk or resistance in these venues. How many lives might have been saved had only one attendee in San Bernardino had a firearm? I suggest we not fear an armed citizenry, but should fear the depravation through regulation of our right to protect ourselves and others.
The American people have accepted gun proliferation is wrong? You little hypocritical communists don't seem to grasp that the NRA has millions upon millions of members. It isn't some faceless organization. The reason your gun grabs don't work is because of the people behind the NRA.
ReplyDeleteYour "sensible" gun laws are just code for a total gun grab. You all just do a terrible job of even pretending to say otherwise. California has the "sensible" gun laws you want. They didn't work. Bad people still did bad things. France has perhaps the delusional laws you fantasize about. Bad people still did the exact same bad things.
You hypocrites will go into court and bitch about your pedophile client's rights and protecting them but shit on the other rights that don't suit you, like gun rights (which are in the very same constitution) or the First Amendment if you're on a college campus playing victim while physically seeking to remove and intimidate the media.
What Americans HAVE accepted is that you people aren't the harmless hippies of the 60's and 70's. You are militant. You are vicious. And, your ideology is no longer some harmless experiment in world love. It's dangerous. It's toxic. It is costing real lives. It's a cancer in our country and we need to make a serious change.
12:02 -- An armed security guard in Texas took out two ISIS would-be murderers this very year. They were going to storm and raid and commit a massacre at that stupid "Draw Mohammed" event. But the armed guard took them down single handedly.
ReplyDeleteHe didnt get invited to the White House, though. Maybe that's why you have no fucking idea it happened. Clock Boy, on the other hand, he got an invite.
Great well reasoned post, 12:37 p.m.
ReplyDelete12:02 p.m., there haven't been 355 mass shootings in 2015, there have only been 4. Those who claim 355 don't use the FBI definition of mass shooting but their own contrived definition to get a high number for propaganda purposes.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.breitbart.com/big-journalism/2015/12/04/mother-jones-left-claims-355-mass-shootings-2015-actual-number-4/
There is no such thing as a "gun show gap". If you buy a gun at a gun show, you have to pass a background check. In any event, none of those mandatory check nor any of the other gun control measures being proposed did any good to prevent the tragedies in Colorado and California where those proposals are already law.
ReplyDelete"Weapons of war (assault weapons)" are neither. They are civilian modern sporting rifles. "Weapons of war (assault weapons)" are fully automatic unlike the civilian versions and the ammunition they shoot is full-metal-jacket low-lethality to comply with the Geneva Convention. That's why so many people survive wounds by AK or AR rifles and a lot less survive being shot with handgun hollow-point bullets in .357 magnum or .45 ACP.
Don't let passion and emotion interfere with facts and evidence lest you dellude yourself and end up in ridicule.
Google "Gun Control Australia" and see how Australia handled the mass killing problem it had. And see how their gun homicide rate is a fraction of what ours is. Just like France and England and lots of other civilized countries. The rest of the world has solved the gun problem with common sense. Someday, we may be able to do the same. Maybe in about 20 years or so.
ReplyDeleteDepriving people of their rights is not common sense.
ReplyDelete7:36 pm. An armed security guard is a somewhat trained professional, not a decent armed citizen. I was right the only thing your NRA does is assist terrorists in obtaining weapons.
ReplyDelete