Rumpole's Rule Of Trial #2: Avoid at all costs a Friday afternoon verdict.
We want to keep the discussions on this topic going, so we are going to leave the post up a while longer. But this is just crazy: if you type in the word "illuminati" backwards into the address bar after www and add dot com you get taken to the National Security Agency website. Weird.
Sorry, we know this is off topic, but the NY Times reports that the consumption of even one sugary drink a day was linked to a 19% increase in heart disease. The study followed 48,833 male health professionals over 22 years.
So put down the coke or pepsi and step away from the glass. It can kill you.
A Florida Grand Jury will be impaneled to investigate the death of an unarmed seventeen year old minor child. Trayvon Martin was shot and killed by a 26 year old neighborhood watch volunteer.
We just can't help but think that if the roles were reversed and Trayvon Martin shot and killed Mr. George Zimmerman that Trayvon Martin would have been immediately taken into custody under the "arrest now, let the jury sort it out five years from now" philosophy we all too often encounter.
So what's different about this case? Nothing other than the respective races of the individuals. Sorry, but do you really think the police and state attorney would have been so deliberative if the shooter was an African-American teenager? In our experience we have never seen that type of caution.
We are not advocating the lynching of Mr. Zimmerman. Nor do we decry the failure to immediately arrest him. Getting the facts and getting it right is important. The delay just becomes harder to swallow because we all know the matter would have been handled differently if the roles were reversed.
SPEED ALSO KILLS
Or at least gets you a withhold and $3300 in fines. Remember the City of Miami Officer Fausto Lopez? He was popped for speeding in Broward by FHP last year. The incident set off an internecine war between the two departments. Ace criminal defense attorney (and soon to be Federal Magistrate) Bill Mattheman has negotiated a plea to a withhold and costs of prosecution. No probation.
The Herald reports that Officer Speedy averaged +100MPH on his way to work 114 times in the year before he was pulled over by FHP.
Quite a commute.
See You In Court.
RACISM PURE AND SIMPLE. If the incident would have happened in South Florida Zimmerman would have been arrested by now.
ReplyDeleteAND HOW IS A DEFENSE (the Stand Your Ground Law) BEING CITED AS A REASON FOR NOT CHARGING?????
RIDICULOUS
Soda does not kill per se. The sugar in the soda is not healthy and eating too much of it will increase your chances of a lot more complications than heart problems. But sugary soda is just the tip of the iceberg. Anything with processed sugar is just as bad or worse. Substitute a chocolate cream donut for a Coke every day and you will shorten your walk to eternity. Want to drink soda? Try seltzer water with lime juice. When you get the urge to eat a pastry in the morning, stop and walk around the block while listening to music. You will lose your appetite very fast.
ReplyDeleteYou can't get probation for a traffic infraction. That fine is ridiculous
ReplyDeleteif the news reports are true.... Something is wrong with the Sanford Police Dept.. The feds need to investigate.. Stand your ground, duty to retreat ; who cares deadly force requires imminent fear of death or GBH or reasonable use to stop a "forceable felony" Nothing like that here. ..... The H.O.A. knew and allowed Zimmerman to patrol the community? what is the best civil claim against the HOA?
ReplyDeleteCalling the Captain -- can you confirm Rumpole's post that Bill Matthewman is going to be a Federal Magistrate Judge, and where? I haven't heard this news. Maybe it was in an earlier post I missed? Thanks!
ReplyDeleteReckless is not an infraction and you can plea bargain for any fine so, it appears as if Mr./Ms. 7:58 am does not know much traffic law.
ReplyDeleteDidn't know Bill was seeking a federal mag job. He's a good guy. Did you know he was a K-9 cop in the City years ago?
I would like to say that the participation in the comments section this week has been outstanding.
ReplyDeleteTHE CAPTAIN REPORTS:
ReplyDelete1. Officer Fausto Lopez was charged with Reckless Driving, a traffic misdemeanor. You can get Probation for that crime.
2. TO 4:59 AM. As much as I adamatly disagree with the deicison of the Sheriff, he is following the law as it is written in not arresting Zimmerman. The law states in part:
If a person uses deadly force and invokes the law, a police agency “may not arrest the person for using force unless it determines that there is probable cause that the force that was used was unlawful,” the statute said.
3. Our favourite Federal Blogger wrote on February 3, 2012: "I have confirmed that Bill Matthewman is going to be the new Magistrate in WPB, which is very cool. He will join Dave Brannon as the new dynamic duo up north."
Captain Out .....
Maximum fine on a RD is $500.00. The other $2,800.00 was court costs and cost of prosecution.
ReplyDeleteMichael Vick went to prison for killing dogs! This scumbag kills an innocent human being and nothing happens. Go Figure.
ReplyDeleteTony's deceased father, the former captain of the Soprano crew. Johnny was married to Livia Pollio and they had three children: Janice, Tony Soprano and Barbara Soprano-Giglione. Johnny worked closely with his brother Junior during Tony's childhood. They both went on to become capos in the DiMeo crime family. Johnny was well liked in the organization - boss Ercoli DiMeo was thought to be considering him to take over before his death. Johnny's crew included Paulie Gualtieri and Salvatore "Big Pussy" Bonpensiero. Sal stood up for Johnny in the unrest of '83 and Johnny's leadership led to Sal becoming a made man shortly afterwards. Both Sal and Paulie followed Johnny's wishes and supported Tony becoming capo after Johnny's death of emphysema. Johnny took Tony and his friend Silvio Dante under his wing and brought them up in the organization as part of his crew.
ReplyDeleteThe post said speeding, not reckless driving. That's why I mentioned probation. Unfortunately I know too much traffic law
ReplyDeleteRumpole-- soda kills, we get it.
ReplyDeleteWhat's your take on smoking a cigar when calling the shumie? Yay or Nay?
http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/546976_3159034489791_1083145030_32468508_954451840_n.jpg
ReplyDeleteIn the good Ol U.S.A. you can get 23 months Fed. time for fighting dogs, and to walk freely without arrest for killing an unarmed African American Teenager. Anyone who's witness bonds court knows "Being Black" is considered "Probable Cause." The stain of racism remain, I still remain true to my country, however I will never bow to, nor turn my head from injustice.
captain, what law are you talk about? as i read it : 782.02 Justifiable use of deadly force.—The use of deadly force is justifiable when a person is resisting any attempt to murder such person or to commit any felony upon him or her or upon or in any dwelling house in which such person shall be.
ReplyDeletecaptain: Maybe this law: 782.11 Unnecessary killing to prevent unlawful act.—Whoever shall unnecessarily kill another, either while resisting an attempt by such other person to commit any felony, or to do any other unlawful act, or after such attempt shall have failed, shall be deemed guilty of manslaughter, a felony of the second degree, punishable as provided
ReplyDeleteheard markus pled a guy to 11 years today. anyone going to post about the guilty plea?
ReplyDelete776.012 Use of force in defense of person.—A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force.... the agency may not arrest the person for using force unless it determines that there is probable cause that the force that was used was unlawful... HOW IS THERE NOT PC TO FIND FORCE USED UNLAWFULLY? -- what say you captain?
ReplyDeleteRepublican state lawmakers in Florida responsible for a controversial 2005 self-defense law said it shouldn't apply to a neighborhood watch volunteer who shot and killed Trayvon Martin, an unarmed 17-year-old, in February.
ReplyDeleteIn recorded calls to police, Zimmerman describes following Martin in his car and calls him 'suspicious.' A dispatcher tells him not to pursue Martin, but Zimmerman persists. In statements to police, Zimmerman claimed that Martin then attacked him and he shot the teenager in self-defense, police said.
Martin weighed nearly 100 pounds less than Zimmerman and was found carrying only a bag of Skittles candy and a can of iced tea. Police said that without evidence proving that Zimmerman attacked Martin first, they had no grounds to charge him with a crime.
Dennis Baxley, a Republican state representative and co-author of the 2005 self-defense law, said Zimmerman negated his ability to claim immunity under the law by chasing Martin.
"This law is for innocent, law-abiding citizens who are under attack by a perpetrator," Baxley told The Huffington Post. "Anyone who is out pursuing and confronting people is not protected by this statute."
"I think they need to go back and read the statute," Baxley said, referring to the Sanford Police Department.
Former Republican State Sen. Durell Peadon, another co-author of the law, said Zimmerman "has no protection under my law."
"They need to prosecute whoever shot the kid," Peadon told the Miami Herald on Tuesday.
Gun rights advocates also question the decision not to charge Zimmerman.
"I don't see why he hasn't been arrested," said Sean Caranna, executive director of Florida Carry, a gun rights group.
Zimmerman had no right to follow and confront Martin in the first place, Caranna noted.
"Being the neighborhood watch guy doesn't give you carte blanche to stop and question every guy you see walking down the street," Caranna sa
Critics of the 2005 self-defense law said its broad wording led to a perception among Florida residents and law enforcement that the use of deadly force is justified in almost any circumstance in which a person perceives themselves to be in danger. The self-defense doctrine has also been invoked as a defense by hundreds of people involved in fights and shootings, complicating formerly straightforward criminal cases, legal experts said.
"On a practical level, it seems that prosecutors in Florida are much less inclined to pursue homicide charges in cases when someone claims self-defense,' said Scott Sundby, a professor at the University of Miami School of Law.
The Martin shooting is now in the hands of Seminole County prosecutor Norman Wolfinger, who said this week that he will bring the case before a grand jury in April. The U.S. Justice Department and the Florida Department of Law Enforcement are also involved in the case.
In a statement, Wolfinger pledged a "thorough, deliberate and just" review of the facts. "We appreciate our community's care and concern in this case," he said. "It is our community too."
Weeks passed before Wolfinger took any action, however, leading some to question whether the matter would have ever reached a grand jury were it not for the public outrage that erupted after Martin's parents called for justice.
"If it were not for the public outcry I think it's very clear that the prosecution would not have gone forward," Sundby said.
A spokeswoman for Wolfinger could not be reached for comment.
Sundby agreed with Republican lawmakers that Zimmerman's apparent pursuit of Martin exceeded even the broad bounds of the self-defense law, which loosened the standards by which citizens can use deadly force to repel an attack or stop a violent crime in progress.
"You cannot provoke the confrontation. You cannot be the instigator and then claim 'stand your ground,' Sundby said.
Captain I hope you read the Huffing Post article I posted it completely debunks your argument. I try to convey to people that some people's interpretation of the law can be erroneous and misconstrued. Captain your wrong on this one plain and simple the shooting of Treyvon Martin was a hate crime. 1st degree Murder no less than 2nd, the charge of manslaughter would be an outrage.
ReplyDeleteIf you have doubts of who is yelling for help before the shot is fired listen to this 911 call you can hear a young boy yelling "HELP" and "HELP ME" and moments later a shot. It sounds pretty clear to me that is a boy yelling.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/911/call3.wav
Above is the 911 call in which you can hear Trayvon Martin yelling for Help.
ReplyDeleteRumpole,
ReplyDeletesince you think David Ovalle is such an "Ace" reporter, maybe you should run a piece on how he fucked up the Herald story on the Stand Your Ground motion granted by Judge Bloom yesterday.He writes that the accused stabbed the victim in the back as he was fleeing the burglary. That might be what the prosecutor wanted the judge and Herald to believe, but those were not the facts. Ovalle did not even speak to the Assistant Public Defenders who litigated that motion for 3 days and who did a fantastic job in PROVING their client acted in self defense. I know both lawyers for the Defendant in that case. Both are fine attorneys, honest and did a hell of a job. Ovalle should retract his story and Herald should run the correction on the front page.
Those lawmakers are just trying to protect their law, and the lobbyists who lined their pockets to get it passed. Just because they say Zimmerman should be prosecuted, does not make it so.
ReplyDeleteThere is no evidence Zimmerman did anything unlawful, and no evidence regarding who escalated the encounter into something physical.
Zimmerman broke no law by patrolling his neighborhood. He broke no law by following Martin. He broke no law by speaking to Martin. He broke no law by asking Martin to stop, or asking him any questions. As a citizen, any one of us can approach anyone else. Martin has the right, of course to answer, or ignore Zimmerman. He can tell him to drop dead.
There absolutely no evidence released thus far indicating what happened next. The possibilities are endless. The tape of the cries for help are not dispositive that Martin may have been the aggressor after Zimmerman began the encounter.
Without any more evidence, and under the state of the law in Florida, the lack of an arrest is the right call. This is exactly the scenario the critics of the law envisioned. People killing one another, with scant evidence that anything other than what the shooter said occurred, did occur.
The responsible lawmakers are trying desperately to right the ship, and cover their bought and paid for asses. And now, with a African American dead, and a "white" shooter, the race issue comes into play as well.
But let's face it, this law was passed so white property owners could shoot African Americans with impunity. And so it comes to pass.
The Captain Responds:
ReplyDeleteAmerican Minority and others:
I stated in my first comment, "As much as I adamatly disagree with the deicison of the Sheriff ..."
So, let me be clear - I believe an injustice has been done in this case. Zimmerman should have been arrested by now and the police did peform a shitty investigation. Based upon the facts that have come out, I do not believe that Zimmerman has a Stand Your Ground defense here. I do believe that, if the situation was reversed, that black male Martin would have been arrested on the spot.
Now, having said all of that, most of you on this Blog have a criminal defense background. None of us know what the contents are of the statement Zimmerman gave to the police. We all are good criminal defense layers, at least I hope so, and any of us could mount a Stand Your Ground defense in this case.
So, there you have both sides of the story.
On a separate note, hey DOM, where's my Hat Tip ;) I posted on the NY Times piece the other day on the Armed Career Criminal Act.
Cap Out ...
Response: Captain thanks for clarifying Sir. Response 11:22 you state that "There is no evidence so far." You are very wrong. Also you state that Zimmerman had a right to confront Martin and that no laws were broken. According to the Law when you A.)Holding someone who does not want to speak to you against there will. (That is breaking the law.) B.)Following and chasing after someone (That is stalking.) What Law school did you graduate from,11:22 you must be a C class plea bargain specialist,not to mention discriminatory bias.
ReplyDeleteThis Grand Jury is just a farce to CYA. This child was killed on February 26, almost a month ago???? What's taking soooooo long to convene this Grand Jury? I submit to you that if the Justice and FBI was not stepping in, they would still be trying to sweep it under the table. No justice, no peace! No justice, no peace! May God bless America!!! How was it self-defense? The kid was trying to get away from the big guy with a gun and the big guy chased him down. Nothing less than murder by Zimmerman who then claims self-defense to get away with his crime. Oh, yea...it's Florida and Caylee Anthony drowned in the swimming pool. Gotcha! *wink*
ReplyDeleteJustice is blind but in Florida it is also deaf and dumb.
If Zimmerman hires Jose Baez, he will walk.
ReplyDeleteOK - This is not meant to provoke controversy and this is not intended to be racist. And I believe that George Zimmerman should not be given SYG immunity and should be prosecuted for murder.
ReplyDeleteBut...
Where is the national outrage when young black people murder each other? Why is it only when racial lines are crossed do people rally and cry for justice?
Young black men murder each other everyday in our country. And with the "stop snitching" mentality, many get away with it even though these murders are witnessed by many.
Where is Al Sharpton then?
Watching the John Goodman trial live.
ReplyDeleteRoy Black just might pull off the win.
So true about ovalle. Constantly fucking up in his articles.
ReplyDeleteThat's an understatement.
DeleteAmerican Minority-
ReplyDeleteListen idiot,
1) there is no evidence Zimmerman in any way held Martin or in any way prevented him from leaving. I saw nothing in the news that said that Martin was grabbed, held, or in any way was physically stopped from walking away.
If there is a report of that, I have not seen that, and if it were so, then Zimmerman would have been committing a crime, which would prevent him from claiming immunity under the law. If he had admitted to the police he had touched Martin and held him, or held him at gunpoint, then clearly it is not self defense.
2) Stalking requires a course of conduct, a series of acts over a Period of time, however short. Following someone on a public road and asking what they are doing there is not a crime.
3). Calling me names does not make you smarter or right. My law school education is immaterial, but I can tell you it is a school in the North East that is in the top 50 as ranked by the US News and World Report. The accusation that I am a plea bargain specialist is completely juvenile. Should we assume you never have had a client accept a plea? Not only that, I am advocation a position that is unpopular on this blog. I would take this case in a second and litigate the Stand Your Ground issue in a moment.
4) Discriminatory Bias? I am making my argument based on nothing but the facts as I know them. I don't care if the shooter is white, black, or yellow.
If you know facts that are different from what I have recited, as they are reported in the news reports that I have read, then point out where I am uninformed.
But if you honestly can say after reading my previous comments, that they are racially biased, then I am sure nothing I say can convince you otherwise.
Oh, and BTW, you are a douche.
Very disturbing enhanced audio of the Zimmerman 911 tape. You can clearly hear him mutter "f#$@ing coons" while on the phone with the police.
ReplyDeleteClearly he was trailing this boy through the neighborhood. Thinking he had some authority, Zimmerman probably tried to physically stop the boy from walking through the neighborhood. The boy had every right to resist this battery/false imprisonment. When the boy punched Zimmerman in the nose in self-defense, Zimmerman took him to the ground and shot him.
Is it true that Bonnie Rippingille is going to be running for county court?
ReplyDeleteTHE CAPTAIN REPORTS:
ReplyDeletePALM BEACH COUNTY
The jury has been charged and they went out at 4:30 PM to deliberate in the Goodman case.
Cap Out .....
What is really crazy is it seems if someone studies the law correctly that they can kill people now. I believe he started the confrontation. He pursued the boy. He confronted the boy. They boy was acting in self defence. He killed the boy. The cops did alot of assuming! Everyone on the initial investigation should be fired for incomptence! Especially the officer who "corrected" a witnesses statement. So if you want to murder someone and get away with it you simply take your intended victim to Florida, make sure there are no witnesses, provoke an altercation, shoot them dead and claim self defense. Not only will you get away with it but chances are you won't even get arrested or charged.
ReplyDeleteBTW-- How did he get his CCW then? You can't have domestic violence on your record and carry a concealed weapon.
When I first heard the name George Zimmerman, I envisioned a hypocritically bald Jewish man in his late 60s. G-d, was I ever wrong
ReplyDeleteTHE CAPTAIN REPORTS:
ReplyDeleteJury Back ...
They voted to quit at 5 pm and will return at 8 am on Friday to resume.
Cap Out .....
Everybody has an opinion, and nobody has all the facts. All you people are just guessing and speculating based on half assed, bullshit reports from newspapers and "sources". It is actually refreshing to see the police investigate something before making an arrest . The politicians are scrambling to cover their behinds, the "community leaders", are seeking mob rule, and the rest of us don't have all the facts. There is no statute of limitations on murder, so if it is an unlawful killing, what's the hurry? It would be nice to see the police conduct an investigation get all the facts and then move accordingly, ready to support whatever decision they make with evidence. It is surprising to hear people trained in the law jumping to conclusions, and giving their own opinions on whether or not a crime has been committed. You should know better. The stupid speculation and guessing should be left to pundits, talking heads, and laypeople. Jason Grey
ReplyDeleteIn response to 11:22 & 3:08 first of all it is meaningless of how Ibiley your Institute of learning was, after your first year it does not mean anything,youd better be an (effective attorney) or you'll be a (shitty lawyer) with an Ibiley degree.(hoorah) Remember Clarence Darrow did not graduate from College, nor did he pass the Bar.
ReplyDeleteSecondly if the (fact) that George Zimmerman is on tape racially profiling Martin, and Martin was (unarmed) and Martin was on the phone with his girlfriend saying "Someone is following me", and ends up dead dosent resonate with you as a crime, then maybe you should file a N.O.A. for Zimmerman. Your facts are your facts, you would almost definitley loose trial.
Lastly if name calling is being juvenile then what did you just hypocritically exhibit. I'f I am a douche, then you are a "Real Smuck."
Rump, Thanks for posting the pic. on today's blog.
Jason Grey is absolutely right. We hammer the cops for jumping to conclusions all the time and now we're hammering them for conducting an investigation? Are you kidding me?
ReplyDeleteThis new law is a huge problem as many of us recognized from the get go (no, I'm not anti-gun; in fact, I've owned plenty of them). Kudos to the cops and prosecutors who aren't filing charges based on public sentiment.
BTDT
David Ovalle suffers from too many rides in police cars and drinks with the boys in blue. If a cop shot him in the face and said it was Ovalle's fault, Ovalle would write it as fact. He is a hack
ReplyDeleteTo American Minority
ReplyDeleteMy apologies. After your last post I can now see the problem. You clearly have a learning disability. I take back calling you a douche. That was below the belt for me to call a handicapped person a name like that.
I assure you I only brought up my law school because you asked. We did not have a special education program there, so that's probably why you don't know what school it is. Enough about that, though...
If you read my comments again, you can see that my arguments and position are based solely on what I have known to be the "facts" as reported in the news. I did not claim to know any more. If you are more informed than I, so be it.
I do not know what Zimmerman said on tape. Saying Martin is a black male, without more, is not racial profiling. I don't know if Martin was on the phone with his girlfriend and said any of the things she claims (and unless for some reason there is a tape of that conversation, neither do you.) You should know that Martin being unarmed is not a bar to claiming self defense for Zimmerman.
I have heard that often people who lose one of their senses have their other senses hightened or enhanced. Perhaps your limited intellectual abilities have been supplanted by the ability to see things you were not near, hear things you were not present to hear, and know what was in the minds of people you do not know.
Can you tell what I am thinking now??
I am sure you will not let this lie, and you will respond further. I am anxious to hear about how you never "loose" a trial like Clarence Darrow. For the record, I did not know these facts about him. His not graduating college and not passing a bar exam are truly interesting. I assume this is what inspired you to practice law. If he can do it without a college degree nor passing a bar exam, surely you can too.
In your reply, please let me know what the word "smuk" means. Also, I googled "Ibiley" and came up empty. If you would kindly enlighten me on the meaning of this word as well, I would appreciate it.
Lastly, again, I apologize for the name calling earlier. By the way, are those all typos from your anger, or are you missing digits on either hand?
While it's somewhat normal that everybody misspells on the blog (is this the new cool or just the dumbing of America?), I do take much exception to the misspelling of the word 'schmuck', as American Minority recently did. What a schmuck to err in such fashion.
ReplyDeleteWell said Jason.
ReplyDeleteJason is correct. We should get the Facts. We all can spin possibilities, but after a quarter century in the pits of Justice, one thing I have learned is that The Facts, The Evidence, The Conflicts in the Evidence and the Absence of Evidence give you a picture of what ( might) of happened.
Without video we all just put the puzzle together. Lets act with intelligence and Get the facts , all the pieces then decide.
As an aside Darrow Lost the Scopes trial.
DS
Oh snap !!!
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteBizarre find at Miami International: 2 fetuses in Miami luggage
ReplyDeleteAs a reality-TV show shot footage, customs agents found fetuses in the luggage of two women at Miami International Airport.
Leave it to Miami to shock even a reality-TV film crew. The crew was shooting footage at Miami International Airport for an upcoming episode when customs agents found a pair of human fetuses in the luggage of two women returning from Havana.
The fetuses were to be delivered to someone in Miami and used in a Santeria-like religious ritual, according to two people knowledgeable about the case.
“I’ve never heard of anything like this,” said Pat Diaz, who retired two years ago after 25 years on the homicide squad of the Miami-Dade Police Department
The Barrister
Am I the only one who sees some weird parallels between the Trayvon/Zimmerman case and Tom Wolfe's book (not the unwatchable movie) "Bonfire of the Vanities?" Zimmerman may not exactly be a "Master of the Universe," but it looks like he is in for the same type of public burning/media frenzy that America had in store for Sherman McCoy.
ReplyDeleteDS.
ReplyDeletein the version I watched Darrow won. And I know you have pointed out in the past your aversion to spelling, but please don't use the english language so poorly, when you said
picture of what ( might) of happened.
It is "might HAVE happened".
Call it a pet pieve of mine, but that one drives me crazy every time I see it.
After eight days of trial, it took the jury only nine minutes to deliberate. Scopes was found guilty on July 21 and ordered to pay a $100 fine.
ReplyDeleteThe Tennessee Supreme Court found the statute to be constitutional, the court set aside the conviction on appeal because of a legal technicality: the jury should have decided the fine, not the judge, since under the state constitution, Tennessee judges could not at that time set fines above $50, and the Butler Act specified a minimum fine of $100The Opinion added a totally unexpected recommendation:
The court is informed that the plaintiff in error is no longer in the service of the state. We see nothing to be gained by prolonging the life of this bizarre case. On the contrary, we think that the peace and dignity of the state, which all criminal prosecutions are brought to redress, will be the better conserved by the entry of a nolle prosequi herein. Such a course is suggested to the Attorney General.
Attorney General L.D. Smith immediately announced that he would not seek a retrial, while Scopes' lawyers offered angry comments on the stunning decision.
In 1968, the Supreme Court of the United States ruled in Epperson v. Arkansas 393 U.S. 97 (1968) that such bans contravene the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment because their primary purpose is religious. Tennessee had repealed the Butler Act the previous year
DS
PS: Sorry 11:25 about the absence of a form of the helping verb [ a form of 'be'].
Why is Greer Elaine Wallace running against De La O ?
ReplyDeleteTHE CAPTAIN REPORTS:
ReplyDeleteBREAKING NEWS ... GOODMAN GUILTY
Palm Beach County jury finds John Goodman, represented by famed criminal defense lawyer Roy Black, GUILTY of DUI Manslaughter and GUILTY of Vehicular Homicide.
Judge tells both sides to see if they can agree on a sentence. Otherwise, Judge will set a sentencing date and pass sentence.
Judge denies bail and takes defendant into custody.
More at 6 .....
Cap Out .....
Mark Eiglarsh is The Captain.
ReplyDeleteVery significant news that Goodman was found guilty and taken into custody.
ReplyDeleteEven more significant will be when a judge rules that the adult adoption of Goodman's girlfriend was a sham,thus freeing up another few million for the family.
In my 20 years of doing adoption work, not one adult adoption has ever passed the smell test.
Zimmerman clearly called Martin a "fucking coon" and Martin clearly called for "help" on the tapes. What more evidence do you need that this was racially motivated and that Zimmerman was the aggressor Top 50? And why won't you admit that if Zimmerman were black and wearing a hoodie and claiming SYG, he would have been in jail since All-Star Weekend? By the way, top 50 won't get you into biglaw so I might keep that bit to myself.
ReplyDeleteI am terribly tired of the public making demands concerning the Martin / Zimmerman matter. They have the right to petition the government concerning their grievances; yet they should not expect that louder voices help in the search for truth.
ReplyDeleteFar worse, my peers think that by following what the media has released, they have a fixed opinion of what did and now should happen.
More than once I investigated a homicide and did my best to build a case. I always believed in the ABA standard that if I could not prove to a jury that the defendant was guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, the case was never filed.
So what do I know about what took place in Sanford? At what distance does the ballistics expert tell me that the shot was fired? Was there a blood transfer? Was either person injured / bruised? Did Zimmerman make an explanation that cannot be rebutted? Have witnesses already changed their initital version? Blood tests on either / both? Clothing taken or examined?
Please stop pontificating and hope that someone bright and honest will make the best possible decision -- even if it is not the one you personally would like.
No prosecutor's case was ever won in the media - even if they might think it was. It will be a succesful result if the best possible approximation of the truth is revealed. Until then, neither the talking heads nor the adamant crowd assists in the fact-finding process. They only inhibit rational analysis and care ful case evaluation and planning.
The Captain Reports:
ReplyDelete1:16 - Because she can. Why shouldn't she run against him?
HR: Where's my HT
2:00 - Got me. Never tried to really be anonymous. I just liked the Moniker "Captain Justice". Hope you have enjoyed my material.
DS: "helping verbs". Seriously, on a Friday.
Now I need to head back to the studio for my next spot on Fox.
Have a great weekend.
Cap Out ....
Very tough facts for Roy but he did an outstanding job with the little he had to go on. Probably the best job any defense attorney could do with this case. Everyone expected this verdict so no surprise, although after Roy's closing I believed that he had a shot. He's still the best out there.
ReplyDeleteOkay, now. Let's all kiss Roy's ass. Loser case? Sure. Much better deals have been worked out by much "lesser" lawyers. Rich? Guilty? Better off going with the PD.
ReplyDeleteI guess that Goodman will not be attending Black's gala this weekend.
ReplyDeleteSecret Judge, pardon me for my erring in the misspelling of the word "Schmuck". Perhaps in the next rare occasion, that I should choose to use a pejorative,I can consult with you first, Your Honor.
ReplyDeleteDear, 11:34
I admit. I was in special education, they were was titled Honor's Classes. I also was negligent, in my typing, do to the fact I was drafting three separate trial documents last night as I looked away from my keyboard to wastefully respond to your post in two minutes flat. However, rest assure, I will not make that mistake again. I gratuitously accept your ignominious apology, "An even swap is no swindle." So no hard feelings there pal.
Secondly, I know it is hard for you to accept that (WWB) is not legal, and even more it is a Civil Rights violation, but see there is this pesky prerequisite call "Probable Cause". George Zimmerman did not have any Probable Cause to stop Treyvon Martin, nor was he a Police Officer with the authority to do so. Zimmerman was not even a model law abiding citizen. He was arrested for battery on a L.E.O and also had a Domestic Violence Injunction.
Furthermore,there are 46, 911 calls, none of which resulted in an arrest of any suspects, that contain Zimmerman himself, claiming to be trailing someone he deems suspicious, describing them only as being (Black Males). Now they call this "Racial Profiling" and it is illegal, and there is a Federal Mandate against it. I presume that, these actions does not qualify as a "Course of conduct;Series of fact" to you. If you are not sure exactly what "Racial Profiling" is you might want to consider taking a Cultural Diversity Training, or a CLE class.
I'm sure that your Ivy League University deprived you of that experience. btw on your sequential number 3 paragraph Line 7 3/22 3:08pm post, the word is, "Advocating". (No worries my kid a Principal's Honor Roll student, pointed it out while doing 3rd grade homework.) Your school must be proud of your exorbitant Ivy League verb usage.
P.S. We'll see how the investigation comes out.
Kudos to Mr. Laeser for telling it like it should have been said long ago on this matter.
ReplyDeleteI never understood the rush to judgment on a blog read primarily by criminal defense lawyers. And if you understand anything about homicide cases and anything about the SYG law, then you would not issue such demands for a rush to judgment.
Abe, while I agree with what you said, I still believe it is a valid topic of discussion for those that point to their opinion that, had the situation been reversed, Trevon Martin would have been arrested on the spot.
Cap Out .....
Captain,
ReplyDeleteI concede that Martin would most likely have been arrested on the spot. We live in a world in which racism does exist. But would it have been right? Would not the black man in a reverse situation want the authorities to evaluate every detail before making the wisest possible decision? Of course - we all would want that. Why should we want that less today? Will arresting Zimmerman before all the evidence is gleaned make race hatred disappear? Or might it lead to an acquittal one day far in the future because some missing evidence might create a reasonable doubt?
What would happen then? Would the family feel better? Would the racists of both groups have their day?
My peers should understand this most of all. Do they have a right to discuss any issue? YES! Should they apply reason to their views -- I hope they do!
Sorry Capt. but your example is off-base. I agree with you that if a black hoody wearing 17 year old shot a 27 year old neighborhood watch captain, while in Sanford Florida that itwould be a near certainty he would be arrested on the spot. this would be true for numerous reasons. But that is not the correct inquiry. If you wish to postulate and engage in speculation for the sake of doing so, then the question would be; whether a 27-year-old neighborhood watch captain who was black, shot a hoodie wearing 17-year-old white teenager in Sanford Florida would the situation be handled in a like manner? Jason Grey
ReplyDeleteFrom Top 50,
ReplyDelete1) plenty of people from my school go on to practice at prestigious "biglaw" firms. No, did not. I went to work at the SAO with people from many fine schools. And not so fine schools. If you read the sting of comments, you will see I was responding to an attack on my education. Not bragging. No reason I should keep it to myself.
2) what might have been said in the heat of the moment still does not prove a thing.
Suppose Zimmerman stopped Martin and asked who he was and what he was doing. Zimmerman has every right to ask such questions. Martin decides to stop and talk, consent. Martin is however in fear for his safety, and not required to run. To prevent his being attacked, Martin punches Zimmerman in the face. Zimmerman is not knocked out. He is however now in fear for HIS life. He does not have to run. In his anger for being punched for serving his neighborhood, he calls Martin a coon, and a fight erupts.
Martin is now afraid, because he did not knock the larger man out, and is being beaten up, and cries for help. Zimmerman still in fear shoots and kills Martin.
Is that scenario so far fetched?
3) yes, had the races been reversed, Martin probably would be locked up. I never said he would not be. That does not mean that Zimmerman should be if he has broken no law.
Anything else?
And thank you for supplying my new online monniker.
Top 50 out!
Has anybody taken a moment to think about Trayvons parent? They lost their son.
ReplyDeleteNo parent should ever have to plan their child's funeral.
I am happy to say that I outed Eiglarsh as The Captain! See Friday at 2:00 and his confession at 3:41. It was his ego that revealed his true identity.
ReplyDeleteI don't know which the guy likes more, his reflection or his image.
Nobody is kissing Roy's ass. I'm just commenting that he did a fine job despite unfavorable facts.
ReplyDeleteI don't know if there was a "Donte Stallworth" type of plea they could have worked out before trial.
Shumie Referee--
ReplyDeleteI have a problem and need help. Working in the office on a Saturday my thoughts keeping turning to a woman whom I cannot stop thinking about.
Can I call the shumie or do I focus my attention on work?
Ruling?
Hey brother- you and me both, except the difference is she is more than a few years younger than me and I have uh...entanglements...but still she dominates my thoughts and I keep thinking of that stupid Woody Allen line- the heart wants what the heart wants. Any advice?
ReplyDeleteIMHO- the Woody Allen quote is a pretty damn good argument.
ReplyDeleteIts Saturday. That means its Shumie all day
ReplyDeleteDS
The heart wants what the heart wants. And it won't be denied. The heart does want what it wants. Then the body acts upon what the heart wants. Period.
ReplyDelete@12:21-- At times I think it was better off not knowing her-- I wouldn't be in this predicament. I try to push her out of my thoughts but she keeps popping back in my mind. As you say-- the heart does want what it wants-- and I want to be with her.
ReplyDeleteBrother its like you're reading my mind. I'm having this running argument with myself and I curse the day she ever glided into my life and yet there she is. I obsessviely check my email and text messages and I turn on the radio and brood over love songs until I can't stand it and thte only difference between you and I is I know there's no way in hell I can get work done so I didn't even try. Heading out to the golf course this afternoon to try and get my mind off of it.
ReplyDeletetrue, the heart does want what it wants, do not try to make any sense of it.
ReplyDeleteTo the individual @12:21 looking for advice-- ever hear of this quote: Out of sight out of mind.
ReplyDeleteIt ain't rocket science-- stop thinking about her, capice?
Well now I call it a career having seen it all. We're advice to the puppy dog lovelorn now?
ReplyDeleteThat should read " Now I CAN call it a career..."
ReplyDeleteHey 1:38- Why do you curse the day she "glided" into your life? Has she made your life that miserable?
ReplyDelete11:37, 12:21, Here is my two cents-- if prevention is the best medicine quit thinking about her. Thoughts?
ReplyDeleteNothing has happened. Nothing will happen, except I will struggle with the pain of seeing her so close, feeling these thoughts, and pondering what will never be. And it hurts. So I curse the day she upended my life.
ReplyDeleteBefore we follow the mob mentality and those who foster, get all the facts. There is a witness who saw the Martin-Zimmerman incident: http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/state/witness-martin-attacked-zimmerman-03232012
ReplyDeleteAbe Laeser has become the voice of reason and common sense in this thread. Criminal defense lawyers, of all people, should be that last ones to rush to judgment and let themselves be overrun by emotions instead of cooly analyzing the facts as they become available.
ReplyDeleteTo the uncompassionate fool @2:09,
ReplyDeleteLoving someone, having feelings is not something one can easily switch off especially if that person you pine for communicates with you on a daily basis therfore consuming your mind.
And the ball is now is your court-- what say you? Thoughts?
Being a married man I feel guilt when I think what it would feel like to kiss her lips, having her legs wrapped around my waist and worse if we had kids what they would look like.
ReplyDeleteI need a cold shower.
2:40-- Brother you have a case of The Love Trip-- you've fallen and can't get up.
ReplyDeleteHas it once crossed your mind she ponders similar thoughts and is also hurting inside because she is aware of your entanglements?
ReplyDeleteIf the heart wants it wants as the great Woody Allen once said I say GO FOR IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ReplyDeleteYes I know she hurts. Neither of us wanted this. It just....happened. And by it I mean feelings and nothing more.
ReplyDeleteReally guys (and Gals?) I rarely comment on comments but this is too much. Can't y'all find a high school blog and gush about who likes whom and so forth?
ReplyDelete@2:09-- I can't ignore her. She sends text messages and emails. How do you suggest I quit thinking about her and besides she makes me happy. Thoughts?
ReplyDeleteWouldn't it be funny if the two of you both were posting back and forth?
ReplyDeleteWould you rather have a bunch of moronic shumie comments?
ReplyDeleteTouche! A few years ago we had a burgeoning romance between an asa and PD on the blog but then the comments stopped cold and the pd emailed me to say that they were too nervous they would be outed and of course I understood.
ReplyDeleteHey Rump-- we read your blog including your insufferable posts about eating healthy and the dangers of "soda pop" which btw is a word no one has used since the swinging sixites. Nowadays we say "Coke" or "Pepsi." Soft drink is also acceptable so do your readers a favor and let us post. I suggest you sit back and why not play therapist since you have taken the role of being Dr. Health Nut on more than one occassion.
ReplyDelete@2:43-- You've got to be kidding? After everything that's happened we suddenly have a eye witness that corroborates Zimmerman's story? You would think Chief Lee would've mentioned that before he resigned temporarily. Obama yesterday more or less said Zimmerman is guilty. Zim's lawyers must be rubbing his hands together and getting ready to say-- M-I-S-T-R-I-A-L.
ReplyDelete@5:23-- That comment must have stung Rump.
OK I get to leave the hundredth comment.
ReplyDeleteFirst I use the term soda, not "pop" or soda-pop" as I was not reared in Oklahoma or backwater Indiana or some other such small town haven. I believe soda is still an acceptable term.
Second- I have an interest in helping people get healthy and I just cringe when I see people swigging soda or -even worse- giving it to their young children. It just bugs me.
Third- I have no training (and little use) for psychology or dare I say in this context- "pop psychology."
Sometimes I just crack myself up.
I guess, considering we are a small community that several erstwhile lovers are reading this and wondering if their current crush is writing about them. I doubt it. These are common human emotions and my guess is that at any one time in a line of fifty lawyers at the REGJB 10-20 have something like this percolating in their life.
ReplyDeleteBut I do have my suspicions that the person who wrote about the woman feeling just as scared and confused and hurt was in fact someone on the other end of one of these trysts waiting to occur. Just a guess.
Growing up I lived with two parents who smoked constantly in my presence. I was given "soda pop" and fast food and later on lived on pizza and Frito Lays in college and smoked some good stuff and partcipated in several beer pong tournaments. Guess what Rump-- I'm still alive and breathing.
ReplyDeleteHave you seen the documentary "Babies." It is about a year in the life of four babies from around the world, from Mongolia to Namibia to San Francisco to Tokyo. All raised according to their culture and many other things that probably you and other parents in the US would not just cringe at but frighten you as a parent-- for example, would you ride with your newborn on the back of a motorcyle or leave them in the middle of the field with animals? None the less the babies are happy and healthy. I highly suggest you click on the 'Parenting' link and watch a clip.
12:21- Listen son if she dominates your thoughts she is more than just a crush.
5:10- I got nothing other than the "heart wants what it wants."
5:49, There is a world of difference between having a 'crush' and having 'emotions' for someone.
5:38, Think about this for a moment. A guy who has 100 pounds on you steps out of his SUV, maybe brandishing a gun, maybe not, and demands to know why you are in his neighborhood. What are you, unarmed, going to do? Attack him? Doubtful. But if he gets in your face and pushes you on the shoulder, would you push back? I think I would. So now there’s a fight – one that I did not start – but the mere fact that there is a fight is enough to exonerate the guy who shoots me?
The anonymous witness isn't new-- He was interviewed on camera the day after the shooting:
http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/news/seminole_news/022712-man-shot-and-killed-in-neighborhood-altercation#ixzz1phFMGCu4
Please listen to the 2/27 video linked with that news story. This “anonymous” person isn’t new.
The link for Babies-- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vupEpNjCuY
ReplyDeleteIf soda makes you cringe Rump, then a roaster hoovering over a baby will make you wet your pants.
Rumple
ReplyDeleteI read every once in a while your blog. It's great to read the arguments regarding the law. But reading about a man having feelings over a woman he thinks about constantly. Yet he is married. Got to tell you I know many people in that predicament and live miserable lives.
Some questions for him or them- 1)do you know if she feels the same? 2) is she worth pulling the trigger for?
If the answer is yes then I say go for it. But don't hurt her intentionally if you are not brave. She may understand your predicament and doesn't want to be hurt or hurt anyone. But destiny may be inevitable. Sometimes things happen and one can't explain it
Something tells me the risk maybe worth it. Hopefully we get some good answers or responses.
American Minority........
ReplyDeleteAre you a lawyer? I'm not asking to be criticial. I ask because some of the concepts/restrictions you're talking about apply to government agencies and officials, not individuals.
I'd caution you that:
1. Florida's law is much more problematic than you may realize. This is not the first case, nor will it be the last, where people evade arrest and prosecution becasue of the law. Unfortunately, the law is so broad that it appears to afford a defense to those we wish it wouldn't (I'm not saying this is one of those cases; I'd rather have all of the facts before I reach that conclusion).
2. From what I've read, there is witness testimony and physical evidence supporting Zimmerman's claim that he was attacked (again, I'm not saying it's true, I simply am saying that we should wait for the investigation to be completed and we know all of the facts before leaping to conclusions).
3. Fanning racial flames does no one any good. Until we learn and accept that we are ALL in this together, things will never improve.
BTDT
I didn't see a roaster I saw a rooster. I was more concerned the goat was going to knock the baby right out of his tub. Child rearing differs from around the world. Take for example 80 per cent of men in Italy from 18 to 30 live with their parents and daughters stay at home until they are married.
ReplyDeleteNo one said parenting is easy. We do the best we can.
If the heart wants what it wants then I am in big trouble.
7:17 Madam I am being inexorably dragged into this discussion and the last time such concerns of the heart affected me in the manner described I was late for home room and 4th period mathematcs. However I take issue with your main contention of destiny. As to individuals there is no such thing. There are perhaps millions of people in the world any one of us could be compatable with. The mere fact two people marry and live happily ever after does not mean that those two people are the only two people on earth for each other. It means those two people found each other and are compatable and nothing more. Destiny is merely their description of the luckiness and happiness they feel.
ReplyDeleteAs to the predicament of a married man or woman meeting someone new and feeling they are destined to be with them, I say look in the mirror first. Would the partner pining for another actually feel that way if their feelings for their partner had not faded? I think not.
"The fault dear Brutus lies not in our stars but in ourselves. "
Julius Caesar,, Shakespeare.
Ahh but Rumpole: when Ii first saw her...
ReplyDeleteShe doth teach the morning to burn bright
She hangs upon the cheek of night
Like a rich jewel in an ethiop's ear
When your heart sings such songs how can you not believe in destiny?
So why be miserable? Marriage takes work and well sometimes it just doesn't work. Destiny is divorce. Maybe the new person was just what you needed to realize it. Rumple I agree with you and 717 both. There may be more than one destiny or mr and ms right. Life is short-make yourself happy.
ReplyDeleteThe Woody Allen quote "“The Heart Wants What The Heart Wants” If love were rational, if it were based upon logic life would be easier. Sure it should be as simple as changing shoes, but it is not. Some people glide into our lives turning our lives upside down and leaving a dent on our hearts and we ask ourselves why this person came into our life in the first place.
ReplyDeleteLove is driven from the heart, not logic. However, coupling a want with an emotion is a dichotomy and is counterintuitive! Normally, one wouldn’t expect love to be the result of the act of wanting it. When applied to the heart, the source of all emotions, then the dichotomy becomes a tautology, because the heart is both the source of love and wants, so whatever IT wants, IT has.
The heart wants what the heart wants. You know what that means? It is a statement made by people who can’t explain why they are in love/have feelings for a person.
ReplyDeleteBTW--didn't Lawrence in Lawrence in Arabia say the same thing?
2:40- Why curse the day? Maybe destiny intervened and brought you two together. I agree Rump, just because a couple is married does not necessarily mean they are destined to be together especially when someone comes along stirring emotions inside of you. Life is too short to be miserable.
ReplyDeleteIf you are in an unhappy relationship and there is someone you have met who knows you so well that you really do feel as one, and knows exactly what you are thinking or feeling then why stay in that unhappy relationship? Sometimes you cannot fix what's broken and you need to move on.
ReplyDeleteBut y'all are missing the writer(s) agony- obviously he/she is married and probably has children. So giving the heart what it wants means hurting what you treaure the most- your child/children.
ReplyDeleteSo now how does that "life is short" pablum play out ?
9:25, then your only other option is to have an affair.
ReplyDeleteIf destiny plays apart in our lives-- if two people are meant to be together then they will be regardless of what predicament or entanglement complicate their lives.
ReplyDelete"Fuck this shit" (David Mamet)
ReplyDeleteTo all of you lovelorn fools, I think the time has come to settle the issue and I can think of no better advice than that of Senator Blutarsky in a phrase attributed to him in his formative college years:
ReplyDeleteMy advice to you is to start drinking heavily.
The Trayvon Case is showing deep signs of mob mentality. If this was yester-year the town would taken their torches in the middle of the night, stormed into his house, dragged him out from his bed and hung him in ye old towne square by his thumbs. Case closed.
ReplyDelete9:43, makes a good argument as does Rumpole. Not every couple who is together is meant to stay together.
BTW, I am calling the Shumie for Monday. Calling in "sick." Reaching for the the bottle of scotch by the nightstand. Works well for coughs.
15 minutes up.
ReplyDeletea dui? really? ignominious ending to his career
couldve hired catalano for 7500 to plead to a lesser sentence. instead of the 2 million fee.
This was interesting!
ReplyDeleteToday, with facebook, twitter, cell phones, etc., you are a moron if you begin an affair before you move out of the house or your marriage is legally over.
ReplyDeleteSoda Pop can kill you? I thought it was pop rocks AND soda.
ReplyDeleteIf you take anything to the extreme it is bad but one pack or cigs is worse for your health than
one soda can (btw, i don't do either).
Soda pop number one cause for obesity!! Number one cause of death-- OBESITY
In a nutshell it's called synchrodestiny.
ReplyDeleteGoogle it: http://www.lifeinstructor.co.uk/synchrodestiny.html
Fake Deepak Chopra
Let’s say after an investigation, Zimmerman was found to be at fault, I think that the significant aspect of this situation is how rare that a person with a CCL is in this type of predicament. Anywhere from six to ten million people with CCL’s, yet the incidence of criminal mis-use of their weapons is still a fraction of a percent.
ReplyDeleteThis why CC continues to grow, the vast majority of law abiding citizens can be trusted to use good judgement in using their weapons. Which, of course, the anti-gun faction won’t ever publicly acknowledge.
I think the man should post every so often and let us know about his struggle. This posts were worth reading. Kids make the decision tough but they will get over it if is handled the right way. So I would move on. Dont have the affair, get divorce and find your happiness.
ReplyDeleteI am just thinking back to when it was a glorious time. Its when wise guys were everywhere. it was a time before Apalachia and before crazy Joe took out a boss and started a war. It was a time when I met Jimmy Conway. Jimmy was a legend. He was doing hits for mob bosses at age 16. You see, hits never bothered Jimmy. But what Jimmy really loved to do was steal. He rooted for the bad guys in the movies. Anything, coats, tvs shrimp and lobsters. Shrimp and Lobsters were best, they went really fast. Jimmy was nice to everybody, they called him Jimmy the Gent.....
ReplyDeleteCongratulations....everybody gets pinched. Here's your graduation present.
ReplyDeleteYou learned the two greatest things in life...look at me- never rat on your friends, and tell them nothing....
Is it too late for the fools at FACDL to honor Riy Black at their May Event?
ReplyDeleteI just heard on News and Views on channel 10 that Diana Gonzalez has won murder cases using the SYG law. Really? Which ones?
News and Views is on channel 4 not 10.
ReplyDeleteThe Talmud and Bashert.....
ReplyDeleteI only want one person right now, and I know I shouldn't...But the heart wants what the heart wants.
I heard from good sources that Scott Saul will be taking on Alexander "the great" Michaels at Wrestlemania 28 next weekend in lot 25 East at 6pm.......be there!
ReplyDeleteHey 1:25 pm,
ReplyDeleteIf you are going to do something foolish, the Talmud (I am paraphrasing here) tells you to dress in black and do your dirty deed in another city.
The Talmud also tells you: 1) don't take pictures of where you have been; 2) don't use credit cards for anything; 3) use a condom (forget the prohibition against spilling seed); 4) use an untraceable cell phone; 5) never tell her that you will leave your wife for her, because when you do not, you will be done for; 6) have an exit strategy so you can leave when you realize that she is just a younger version of your nagging wife, or she is the same age as your daughter's best friend; and 7) never ever ever make a sex tape. They are not cute and nobody but nobody wants to see your jiggly body in a compromising position.
4:07-- I was merely pointing out the Talmud mentions the Bashert-- a word meaning fate or destiny, or can be used to refer to any kind of fortuitous good match, such as finding the finding that "perfect job" or the "perfect house" but one of the most famous references is the statement that forty days before a child is conceived, a voice declares in Heaven that this future child will marry 'so-and-so'. There are a number of statements in the Talmud that would seem to contradict the idea of bashert, most notably the many bits of advice on choosing a wife. Nevertheless, the idea has a strong hold within the Jewish community: look at any listing of Jewish personal ads and you're bound to find someone "Looking for my bashert."
ReplyDeleteI quoted the Woody Allen line because it is how I feel when I think about her. I am married, have not strayed, nothing has happened between us yet and not sure if anything will but the tempation is there.
I'd rather read the Shakespearean sonnets, love quotes, songs than bring religion into this interesting discussion.
ReplyDelete@8:15 and @8:30 nailed it on the head--- love is not logical if it were it wouldn't be this confusing or painful then again "what the heart wants the heart wants........"
To 3-25 11:08 am who wants "me" to post every so often, let me first say I think I am at least one of four guys posting who is in the middle of this issue.
ReplyDeleteAs of now- I am conflicted. I just don't know. Lots of things need to fall into place to make this "work" not the least of this is money because lets face it, throwing money at a problem helps with new houses, new apartments, stuff for the kids, etc. Ex wives tend to not get so crazed if they don't think the new woman is taking something from their kids and that is understandable.
But money only greases the skids to make it work if the decision is right. And is the decision to go follow my heart is the very most difficult decision I have ever faced in my life. I have the lives of multiple people in my hands and much of their happiness depends on my making a correct decision.
First up is whether the person who has my heart feels the same way. I get the sense she does, but I do not know for sure. I have not expressly broached the issue for complicated timing reasons. And if she does not feel just as strongly as I do- that this is a once in a few lifetimes type of feeling- then the answer is easy. I do not touch her and she goes on with her life with my blessing and i work out my problems at home by staying or not without any time pressure.
I will not sneak around. if this woman feels like me then the time issue pops up because I now I need to decide before I slip into a life of lies and sneaking around.
Can anybody recommend a good therapist?
You can also have a miserable life with your beshert. Complicated.
ReplyDelete@4:07..... Very funny, sir.
ReplyDeleteWhen was the last time you fell in love with somebody who you “logically” should love?
ReplyDeleteFalling in love with someone does not have to make sense- the same applies for feelings, feelings you have for someone are not rational or logical.
From my own experience I want to be with someone I know I cannot have. I do my best not to think about her, at times I wish she'd never come into my life, it hurts too much knowing she and I fit like a hand in a glove.
No I think you misunderstand my point. I was not arguing for only falling in love with someone who represents a logical choice. I'm not a Vulcan and neither are the rest of us.
ReplyDeleteLove strikes unpredictably and unexpectedly and isn't that what makes it glorious? So that if after spending several years building a business in a city or after just registering at the school of your dreams you meet and fall in love with another person who lives on the other side of the country- well that's love for you. Sometimes it dangles tantalizingly just out of arms reach and you have to make a sudden move to snatch it.
No the dilemma I am speaking of is when true love or deep love, or love so strong that it is painful, grabs you and to get it you have to hurt others you love in different ways- i.e, children or a spouse that you "love" but not that way any more.
That is the big "now what"? moment that life has cast my way.
Anybody know how to get to Vulcan? Things seem easier there.
Methinks the Captain is Stan Blake not Eiglarsh.
ReplyDeleteCircle K
In 1887 Alexander Tyler, a Scottish history
ReplyDeleteprofessor at the University of Edinburgh ,
had this to say about the fall of the
Athenian Republic some 2,000 years prior:
"A democracy is always temporary in nature;
it simply cannot exist as a permanent
form of government.
A democracy will continue to exist up until
the time that voters discover that they can
vote themselves generous gifts from the
public treasury.
From that moment on, the majority always
votes for the candidates who promise the
most benefits from the public treasury,
with the result that every democracy will finally
collapse over loose fiscal policy, (which
is) always followed by a dictatorship."
"The average age of the world's greatest
civilizations from the beginning of history, has
been about 200 years. During those 200
years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence:
From bondage to spiritual faith;
From spiritual faith to great courage;
From courage to liberty;
From liberty to abundance;
From abundance to complacency;
From complacency to apathy;
From apathy to dependence;
From dependence back into bondage."
The Barrister
I am praying someone else is shot just to end this incipid line of comments.
ReplyDeleteAt 541 I completely understand your predicament. You sound like a class act. It seems like you are more concern about the rest of the people before you. You are a selfless human being. Not sure why you what is so complicated on the timing that you could not tell her. It seems like that may be your solution. Tell her. You will find out how she feels.
ReplyDeleteTiming will never be right. But at least regardless of what she says you will know.
What if she does feel the same way, then that once in lifetime feeling was not wrong. Then you have to make tough decision. Sounds like your were struck with lightning.
I will be your therapist.
Call me old fashion but whatever happened to drowning your sorrows in liquor?
ReplyDeleteI am in the same boat as some of you brothers and reading these comments are not helping my situation. Can't stop thinking about this other person whom I formed a bond with and it hurts like hell. I try not to think about her but ignoring her hurts as much as thinking about her.
ReplyDeleteDr Frued:
ReplyDeleteI am in a dilema to say anything. First, OMG what if my suspicions are correct? She is way to classy to push it because she knows of my situation but not my unhappiness (unless she is reading this which is unlikely). Second, if I am way off base then I look like a fool and a man in my position cannot afford to be made to look ridiculous (to use a godfather quote.)
Also, she is so classy that she would say no to avoid causing me trouble even when she really means yes. And lets face it- these feelings as deep as they are don't just grow without mutual watering. Mutual feelings. So asking her is just forcing a personal moment that will develop beyond what I am ready for. Even a touch or a kiss is way too much at the moment. I think. And yet I dream about it.
Oh lord this hurts.
If destiny plays apart in our lives then is it destiny that brought up this topic yesterday and made so many of us come forward with their feelings? Is destiny to blame for me wanting to be with someone that I can't be with? Is destiny to blame for love striking me also unpredictably and unexpectedly and flooding my thoughts of someone whom entered in my life without any warning? Did destiny want us to meet? Why? Although we have not yet spoken about it our hearts our not blind to how we feel for each other--- we just know, the bond is that strong. I am married with a family so if destiny plays a part in our livves what does destiny want me to do? Suffer in silence? Love yea, it's hell. BTW if you are reading this destiny-- Question-- why did you bring her into my life?
ReplyDeleteI am a long time participant to the comments section to the blog and I usually always sign my name, but for personal reasons now I will not. But as to the last comment I will say this:
ReplyDeletecharacter is what you have and how you act when no one is watching. I know you're suffering brother. But you're suffering because you have character. So go find a friend or therapist you can confide in and let the pain out buddy before it eats you up and spits you out.
I try not the let the woman I am crrrazzzzzy about know how I feel but G-d damn it, it ain't easy. I have ignored her at times and that hurts because sometimes I think she believes I am being cruel to her but if she only knew the reason why. I find myself thinking about her/us during the day and if we were to be a couple what it be like to hold her hand, kiss her and......
ReplyDeleteCan we all agree-- Love hurts?
I agree.
ReplyDeleteThat's why I'm heading to Vulcan.
I agree.
ReplyDeleteLove is bulsheeeet.
Go to the link for JoAnn's Advise on Cheating, cause thats what it is. It maybe justified cause your spouse treats you like crap but its still cheating.
ReplyDeleteLOL
DS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9So7QifT3I&feature=relmfu
Just remember. At some point you felt the same way about your wife.
ReplyDeleteAnd as the doctor said to the kid who swallowed a nickel, "this too shall pass."
Aside from dropping dead I've done everything humanely possibly to forget the person I desperately want to be with.
ReplyDelete@9:55 been there done that with ignoring her messages and I think on some conscious level she knows why I do. Thinking about her is painful. Not thinking about her is painful.
I don't have any answers from destiny other than it's not something anyone has any control over but when you find yourself wanting to be with someone while attempting to forget about them and as in the case of one commenter-- wondering what his children will look like then maybe it's time to admit the obvious-- you might be in love and when you're already in a relationship with another it makes it all the more harder. I'm too afraid to say it out loud, but I am in love with this other person, I have fallen in love with her. In the meantime I suffer in silence and as one brother posted, "I brood over love songs" and imagine being with her. Love hurts, it hurts bad man.
Take a page out from the book of Don Draper--
ReplyDeletestay in miserable a marriage and keep a mistress on the side.
You're dreaming about a better situation. You're not in love with this other woman who you don't even know how she feels about you.
ReplyDeleteYou're thinking about her because you're unhappy with the way your life is right now. Work on making that better.
Don't think this other woman will make your life better.
Try focusing your energy on your current relationship. If it doesn't work, take steps to deal with the separation.
Don't jump from a bad relationship to a possibly worse one. Do yo0u really think this other woman is worth losing everything you have in your life. Because you will lose it all. And when this other woman says 'bye, nice having a fling with you, you're really gonna be miserable.
To all the brothers suffering-- posting comments and purging feelings has been helpful for me knowing I am not alone in this matter. If it's ok by the big boss-- Rumpole, I would like to continue to post for the purpose to gain insight and receive advice. I would encourage others who are in the same boat to do the same.
ReplyDeletePosting things I want to say to her but haven't-- has been therapeutic.
Is destiny is inevitable? For you--
ReplyDeleteThe Trogg's "Wild Thing."
12:19-You have carte blanche to continue posting. I admit to having a change of heart (no pun intended) as this discussion continued and I saw a need for lawyers to unburden themselves about the torches they are carrying for others.
ReplyDelete"For all the words of song or pen, the saddest are these- it might have been."
So I feel your pain. And more importantly I am happy to facilitate your conversation especially if it helps. So have at it.
We have discussed it, I know how she feels about me. It isn't a fling. What we share is indescribable. My wife and I have done the therapy bit, couples counseling and those feelings that once were are not there anymore but for the sake of the kids I don't feel its best I leave them.
ReplyDeleteBTW- Rumpole, reading your comment can one presume you too are enamored with a fair lass?
ReplyDeleteRumpole,
ReplyDeleteYou are very gracious to open up the comments for lawyers to vent and seek solace from other attorneys. I am touched.
I too have a problem that has really bothered me for a time.
You see, my fiance has a very small member and it leaves me unsatisfied. I love him so much, but I just don't know if I can live my life with his tiny unit.
Am I being selfish? What if I take a lover to get me through?
Help!
I find myself having daily conversations, "stop thinking about her." "what is she doing today-- at this moment?" "what do her lips feel like?"
ReplyDeleteLong story short wish I'd never met this other woman. Anyone else feel this way?
Romeo @8:02--
ReplyDeleteMy advice-- lay your cards out on the table and tell her how you feel- whether you tell her privately or by unburdening your feelings on this thread, you'll feel better once you do.
Dude, the other woman isn't worth it. Hopefully you had those feelings at some point for your wife. Figure out why you don't anymore. Then, be happy with sticking with her or be happy by yourself first before starting another relationship.
ReplyDeleteI don't agree with a lot of AA stuff, and I'm not saying I no anything about your life, but their idea of waiting a year to get involved with other people is spot on in my mind. Focus on your marriage. Focus on you.
Once you have your life straightened out, then you can involve someone new.
Yes I wish I never ever met her. My life was so simple before she glided into it. I see her, I see a strand of that glorious silky hair laying across her face and I have to fight ever instinct in my body to take my finger and gently brush it away. How can she not know the effect she has upon me? "She doth teach the morning to burn bright..."
ReplyDeleteAs for unburdening myself to her, I think it is wrong. It might scare her making what is a fantasy all too real. And since she is untouchable for me, what's the sense in telling her? I do not want to hurt the multitude of others in my life just to satisfy my needs. Better I suffer through this and curse the light that makes her eyes sparkle which in turns melts my heart and makes my knees weak.
Romeo,
ReplyDeleteUnderstood but if destiny is inevitable and is something you can't control-- then why not go for it? What happens is going to happen, right?
@1:44, rump is too tight lipped however I'd like to know the answer to that also.
ReplyDeleteRomeo,
ReplyDeleteMaybe she hurts too wondering why you were placed in her path and struggles with feelings but ultimately wants nothing more than to see you be happy.
I think about other women but then find myself slowing returning to that one. She has some type of hold on me that won't let go no matter how hard I try.
ReplyDeleteNo it is not inevitable. I can not tell her. I can keep away and let her wonder and eventually this will pass . I control this. If I don't push it or confess my feelings I don't think she will and then nothing will happen. Knowing I hold a key makes it worse.
ReplyDeleteYes she is struggling as well. I see it in her eyes and mannerisms. Its tough on both of us. She drops by just enough to let me know I am on her mind.
ReplyDeleteRomeo,
ReplyDeleteA key you hold-- literally or figuratively?
May I ask what that means?
I am still puzzled at the Lawrence of Arabia comment posted @Saturday, March 24, 2012 8:30:00 PM. Who said it first? Woody or Lawrence?
ReplyDeleteA figure of speech as to the key. If i move forward she will reciprocate. If I back away she will not push it. She is respectful and classy.
ReplyDeleteRomeo,
ReplyDeleteI think she'd say while smiling, thank you for calling her "respectful and classy " and understands, and although she does as you know it doesn't always make the situation easy but as posted earlier, ultimately she just wants you to be happy, ok?
Film Critic here-- I think you are confused the quote did not come from Lawrence Of Arabia
ReplyDeleteThe quote came from Woody Allen: The heart wants what the heart wants after he did an interview. He said it in defense of why he fell in love with Soon Yi (his stepdaughter).
A similar quote was said by 16th century French philosopher Blaise Pascal.........."The heart has its reasons of which reason knows nothing."
this was the stupidest set of comments to date. What a waste of time. I hope this is the last comment, MINE!
ReplyDeleteWoody Allen is number 1:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVLMoaos_Gw
Romeo,
ReplyDeleteYou say your life was simple before she glided into it. Do know whatever complications she caused you was not intentional and should it be your desire that she not "drop by" anymore, she'll understand if it makes things easier for you. The last thing she wants is for you to feel any kind of suffering.
Romeo,
ReplyDeleteUltimately she just wants you to be happy, ok?
And by that she means she wants you not to feel any kind of suffering and if that means you not wanting her to "drop by" anymore, she will respect your decision. It hurts her to know you were suffering and is sorry.
How do you know this?
ReplyDeleteMy thoughts are she is hurting as much as me. I am not angry at her. I wish she never came into my life just as much as I count the minutes and hours until I see her again. Do you know/does she know that I curse myself for causing her pain? That she is so innocent in all of this.
That I want to take her and hold her close and look into her beautiful eyes and tell her I want a chance for the most amazing feelings to grow and that I will do whatever it takes to make it right and give us a legitimate chance at love and happiness?
As Papa Wallenda said "life is on the high wire" and I spent years walking on the ground until she came into my life and now all of the sudden again my heart is beating, my eyes are bright, the air tastes sweet and I am again alive.
Please respond to my comment when you have a moment.
ReplyDeleteRomeo,
ReplyDeleteBecause maybe I know who you're talking about.....
The heart knows.
Early in the morning I can't sleep.
ReplyDeleteI can't work and I can't eat.
Infatuation.
Infatuation.
Intense, short-lived, immature.
Get over it and start repairing your home life.
Love is a splendid thing......and the main reason why we drink!
ReplyDelete10:46--
ReplyDeleteHow many times can you fix something that keeps breaking? Why stay and be miserable-- who is it benefiting?
Romeo,
ReplyDeletePlease talk to me. Email me. There are things I need to say to only you.
And just pray tell how can I do that?
ReplyDeleteOk guys. I wish to avoid facilitating a conspiracy but I have been requested middle this deal. Each of you can email me and I can forward the email to you, privacy guaranteed. Or each of you can open a seperate email acct with gmail and send that to me. Or each of you can meet at Tobacco road and drown your sorrows.
ReplyDeleteRomeo,
ReplyDeleteThe heart is the most powerful organ. It breaks, heals and becomes stronger again yet why is it I don't have the strength to say what I want to say to you? I now understand you suffering in silence....
I will respond within an hour.
ReplyDeleteRomeo--
ReplyDeleteIf you change your mind--- I will fully understand.
Ok. I just jumped into the abyss.
ReplyDelete11:35,
ReplyDelete10:46 here.
If it keeps breaking and you're miserable, fine, get out.
But do that first.
Resolve (even if that means dissolve) that issue before jumping into another one.
I watched Lawrence Of Arabia, even downloaded the screenplay and there is no "the heart wants what it wants" mention.
ReplyDeleteLet destiny play it out-- wait and see.
I suggest Zimmeramn be tried in Simi Valley, California. Lots of retired police dwell there. Jurors from this place, in spite of a videotape (which we lack here) acquitted four officers of beating Rodney King because they were told King was in total control of the situation (ergo, the officers were helpless to behave differently).
ReplyDeleteThis can't be the only place to find people with such open minds. Zimmerman's defenders are making themselves known! The police took Zimmerman at his word. They asserted facts not in evidence. If you read the statement by Chief Lee, you'll find out that it's riddled with inaccuracies. And the basis for those inaccuracies? Zimmerman's POV.
Shame Trayvon doesn't have someone who can speak for him.
Btw-- How do you know that Zimmermans guilt is inconclusive or legally unprovable when there havn't been any legal proceedings against him?